2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

by Moggeee on Jul 22, 2006 4:54 PM PDT Comment 13 comments

I'm feeling positively giddy after Sabean's little magic show last night. Although the Bullpen may yet be the Giants' undoing, this team now compares favorably with that of 2002.

Remember that 2002 team before we nailed an eternal halo on it?

During the first week of August, we were calling it old and washed up. Plus, it never won the division. It went as a Wild Card and kept on defying the odds.

But a quick comparison is in order.

Despite Bonds' decline, the 2006 offense (if, gulp, injury-free) should ultimately be more balanced 1-8 than 2002's.
Do you hate Jose Vizcaino? Two of the backups in 2002 were an untried hack named Pedro Feliz and a long washed-up Shawon Dunston, fer crissakes.
I'd call the starting pitching of the two teams about a push.
The relief corps, because of Nen and Worrell, was better in 2002. But Nen was hiding a tragic bum arm the last month of the season.

Qualitatively, these two teams are similar. That doesn't mean the Giants go the World Series. Hell no. Plenty of teams better than the 2006 Giants never even made a wild card appearance.

But at least we ain't whistling past the graveyard anymore. Maybe the Old Folks Home, but not the graveyard.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

Mmm...beefy

I use my hand, to wipe my tears.

by McPeePee on Jul 22, 2006 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

2002 Giants
Runs Scored: 783
Runs Allowed: 616
Actual Record: 95-66
Pythag. Record: 98-63

2006 Giants
Runs Scored (est. through 7/31): ~490
Runs Allowed (est. through 7/31): ~470
Actual Record (7/22): 50-47
Pythag. Record (7/22): 49-48
Runs Scored (est. through 10/3): 740
Runs Allowed (est. through 10/3): 700
Pythag. Record (est. through 10/3): 85-77

Improvement from here on out, and no injuries to Bonds or Alou, gets us to 87 wins.
2002 pitching was much better than this team.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David Arnott on Jul 22, 2006 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

What he said.

2002 was a MUCH better team. Bonds had arguably the best season ever, Kent was the best hitter in the majors during the second half. They had three excellent relievers in Nen, F-Rod and Worrell. Giant fans only remember game 6, but those three pitched brilliantly in the playoffs leading up to that. F-Rod for instance had pitched 13 consecutive screless innings. The starting rotation was better than 2006. All in all, not close.

by GiantJim on Jul 22, 2006 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

Teddy,

You need to break down the 2002 Giants into two periods: the last two months of the season vs. the first four months. Moggeee's point was that at this point in 2002, the Giants looked like nothing special. They simply exploded in the last two months of the season to put up that final record.

It's a valid point. Going to the Series in 2002 was a shock, because it didn't feel like a dominant team until September. Even then, it just felt like a decent team on a hot streak. This team -- your 2006 first-place San Francicso Giants -- could conceivably repeat that shock.

Go Giants!

by Skaldheim on Jul 23, 2006 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

I agree completely. I certainly didn't think the 02 team was anything special until they got hot at the end of the season, which is usually the case with teams that win in the playoffs.

Which is precisely why I don't understand the firesale mentality with a competitive team. You compete for the whole season, then see who gets hot at the end. That's always been part of baseball.

by mxmob33 on Jul 23, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

If there's anyone on this site who still wants to hold a fire sale today, I would ask them to turn in their Giants fandom and depart the building. I would hope that being in first place would quench the last of those arguments.

by Skaldheim on Jul 23, 2006 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

You obviously haven't seen my hate mail the last couple of days.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

by Brian Sabean on Jul 23, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

Nice Brian, nice. Good thing that you're not "stupid."

Firesale? I want us to get younger (and there's a lot to this, not just the 2006 trade deadline stuff) and I'll stand up for that view. I'm also in favor of our latest deal. Loving this win streak! Go Giants!

by Kent on Jul 23, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

Yeah, like you, I don't think that this is a bad move. Of course it's only one game and I'm certainly thrilled with the result, but it's only one game. As I wrote in another thread, it's not like Sabes has shown himself to be unable to make very good filler moves that turn out very well.

I'm not seriously for gutting the team, but I would still like to see some moves made at some point to make the franchise a bit younger. That being said, Chulk's not bad in my opinion and Hillenbrand (aside from defense) isn't either. Both are probably looking forward to a change of scenery. As I wrote in another thread, "welcome to SF" boys.

Whichever side of the fence we were on, Sabes has shown his hand and he's still trying to win it all this year. I don't see it happening, but I'd love to be wrong.

I should adopt some of Martin's optimism...

Oh, and as nice as the win was, what about Barry's jack last night, as if nothing was every distracting him. Love it!

by Kent on Jul 22, 2006 10:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

"I'm feeling positively giddy after Sabean's little magic show last night."

Oh Moggeee, I knew you'd come crawling back to me. I'm glad you finally recognize the wizardry with which I work.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

by Brian Sabean on Jul 23, 2006 3:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I am a Believer again

Brian, I humbly apologize if I ever questioned your command at the battlefront. I just hadn't witnessed it in a while.

I would like the rank and file to understand what you did here.

Because of Wild Card races, approximately 26 teams out of 30 THINK THEY HAVE A CHANCE right now. If the Giants had waited until July 30 or 31 to get a first baseman, they would have grossly overpaid -- or missed out -- and you would have been lynched.

The pre-emptive strike to get a serviceable first baseman -- even one with issues -- virtually guarantees the Giants will finish strong this year. You also picked the guy up when he was at his lowest perceived value. But that is merely perception, not reality. It's like buying stock on a down day in the market.

Smart Trading.

Hillenbrand will be okay -- he will be motivated to behave like a Saint (and hit like the Devil) because he is in a walk year and has to make up for the Toronto meltdown.

Good teams ensure their division titles nowadays. The Giants MAY have won the division this year by standing pat. Hillenbrand -- who plays two positions and is a proven hitter -- just makes it a better bet.

Fantastic, Brian Babe.

by Moggeee on Jul 23, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It can happen

Through 7/31, they were 59-48. They then closed the season by going 36-18. As of today, we are 51-47. Maybe we can't go 8-1 to close the month, but I'd say we're damn close.

Vizcaino? 1st base? WTF?

by The Balls of Summer on Jul 23, 2006 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: 2002 Giants team was no Sacred Cow

I am one of the more optimistic posters here, and I was ready to bury that 2002 team about 50 times. I'm sure if McC existed then people would have hated that team just as much as they hate this one.

And that brutal road trip in August where Nen blew that save in Atlanta and then the Marlins won three straight? It would have been ugly here...

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 23, 2006 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs