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In Defense of Pedro

This is long and the arguments have holes, but this one is for all the non-Pedro haters out there.

When a baseball player loses the respect of many vocal hometown fans you know there's been a long period of disgust (or one dropped easy pop-up during a playoff series we were going to lose anyway). Pedro is certainly no exception to this rule; his numbers to start the season are fu-ugly. Pedro was touted as the organization's savior for a long time, but he's never developed into the hitter people thought he was supposed to be. Is that Pedro's fault? Management's? Or are the scouts to blame?

At this point in the season I'd much rather have Jamey Wright and probably even Jeff Fassaro hitting with a runner on first than Pedro, but with time, his luck and skills should improve and he will become the Pedro of the last couple of years. And that Pedro is good. What stands out in our are the rally killing strikeouts and double plays. But how about this stat that is most likely completely skewed and has the sample size g-ds trembling before us? Pedro hit .284 in 67 at-bats during the "late innings of close games" from 2004-2005. He was third in the National League with a .597 Slugging Percentage and led the league in RBIs, Runs Scored, Doubles, Homeruns and Extra Base Hits. He did this all with 20-30 fewer at-bats than most of the other players. This may be an obscure category, but his performance in the late innings of those games at least gave the Giants a chance to win 49 times during the last two years. And in the end that's what should matter. If Pedro bats with runners on base at any other time, however, he does seem to either ground into a double play or strike out, but what's more important? Ending a potential rally in the third inning or starting a potential game winning rally in the 8th?

Of course I also hold out hope that we'd be able to trade Pedro and Fassero for David Wright and cash consideration, but it's just not going to happen. Let's look back to the post-Matty third-basemen for the Giants - it's not pretty: Steve Scarsone, Mike Benjamin, Mark Lewis, Charlie Hayes, Bill Mueller, Russ Davis, Ramon Martinez, David Bell, Edgardo Alfonzo and Pedro Feliz.

The only player who came close to Pedro numbers during his tenure with the Giants was Mueller, yet the biggest criticism of Pedro is that he's a weak hitter playing a power hitter's position. Mueller may have a better eye than Pedro and won't GIDP as much, but Mueller has no power at all. At least with Pedro the 15-20 homeruns will come. If asked to choose I'd probably go with Bill, but it's not my choice and the organization wanted to give Pedro a chance.

Pedro is who Pedro is. He's not going to stop swinging at pitches two feet outside and he's not going to suddenly lose his ability to hit balls out of the park. His defense has improved dramatically and maybe as he matures it's possible he'll learn to be more patient (although I doubt it). It is the Giants organization that has decided for the past 10 years that we do not need power coming from third-base. I am sorry that Pedro did not become the type of player people presumed he'd be, but Pedro has been good for us and he's probably even won a few games for us.

Do I cringe whenever Pedro comes to the plate? Certainly, but no more than I used to cringe when Marvin Bernard would lead-off a game or last season when Todd Linden would pop up to deep short, or when Jose Uribe would hit a soft come-backer to the pitcher.

Pedro Feliz is that one watery eye during the flu. The flu is management's decision not to replace Jeff Kent's bat. I may be annoyed with my watery eye, but my anger isn't directed at the symptoms, my anger (or more accurately, my disappointment) is directed at the flu. Pedro's numbers will come around at some point and by season's end he'll be an average 6th place hitter or an above average 7th place hitter with a great glove. I'm happy to live with that as long as Russ Davis stays far, far away from our clubhouse.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: In Defense of Pedro
There is no defense for Pedro...

Personally I'd rather have the lead going into the late innings rather than having to crawl back into the game. So for my money I'd like el hacko to be productive early. I would imagine the starters would too. Seems like pitching with a lead is a bit easier than trailing..

Just stand there, stick your glove in the air, and I'll take care of the rest

by rock n jock on May 2, 2006 12:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Pedro is just the local poster boy for statheads' hatred of anyone who doesn't conform to their ideal of OBP centric view of baseball. He has his strengths and plenty of weaknesses, but they will never recognize anything positive. Check back in when Pedro is hot and you will see no credit given for the homeruns or the winning defense.
yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 2:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

lol...
yes our narrow preconceptions prevent us from recognizing the true merits of the RBI.  Damn you statheads, Damn you I say
Prediction for the 2006 Giants season: Pain

by kenshin1 on May 2, 2006 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: lol...
Got nothing against people who understand and use stats in a sensible way, kenshin. People who use them to distort reality is another question. Pedro hits into too many double plays. He strikes-out more than most. He also hits homeruns at a greater clip than most people on the team and is a valuable asset to the team because of his power and his versatile, quality defense. The inability of some (who I categorize as "statheads" who focus only on OBP as a indication of value) to be able to recognize Pedro's positive contributions shows a very narrow and distorted view of baseball.

Will Pedro ever be anything other than a free-swinging average player that he is? I doubt it. I'm all for having someone better. But the need to trash him by some posters says more about them than it does about Pedro.

yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my problem...
(as you know) stems from the fact that I don't believe his power and defense sufficently compensate for his flaws.  We can agree to disagree, if you wish ;-)
Prediction for the 2006 Giants season: Pain

by kenshin1 on May 2, 2006 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: my problem...
That's a statement I can respect - at least it recognizes he has something other than flaws. And if we have a better option I might reach the same conclusion as you do.
yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Look, you can be valuable with an OBP of .290 - its just that you have to play defense like Ozzie Smith at SS to do so. This is common sense - be it "stathead" dogma. I'd rather be informed about baseball rather than bask in the glow of ignorance.

by Aadik on May 2, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
I'm all for some common sense in this discussion; the "glow of ignorance" comes from those who cannot evaluate Pedro Feliz in anyway that interferes in their preconceived views of what he must be to contribute to the team. "Dogma" is a good word for it.
yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This isn't a stathead thing
the Pedro hate on this site comes from people who watch every single game and bitch about him in game threads.  Honestly, I really don't know what Pedro's OBP is.  I do know that when he strides to the plate, I can count on him swinging at the first pitch, no matter the location.  I can also count on him swinging and missing at a slider low and away.

Yes, I do realize that he does bring some talent to the table.  His defense has been excellent, and he can crush a mistake pitch.  But my frustrations with him start and end with me having to watch him hit.

Please go away Pedro.

by The Balls of Summer on May 3, 2006 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Pedro hit .219 with runners in scoring position last year and is hitting .148 in such situations this year.  He stinks.

by Zackd on May 2, 2006 2:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
No matter how you choose to interpret it, Pedro has been atrocious this year as a hitter. His defense may be good, although not on Peavy's grounder yesterday, but it is inexcusable for a 3rd baseman to hit .205. Every time he comes to bat with a runner on first I basically assume he will hit into a double play.
hung up on '02

by BondsApologist on May 2, 2006 2:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
If you're going to say Pedro sucks, at least base it on his number over a full season (say 2004-2005). Say 20 HR and 80 RBI don't make up for a sub-.300 OBP. That's fine. But please, don't base it on his numbers so far this year. It's May 2nd, for crying out loud! Jim Edmonds is hitting .200. Isn't that inexcusable as well? Should he be DFA'd?
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on May 2, 2006 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
I agree with this FWIW. My arguement of Pedro sucks is based on that career OBP, which is a whole new level of pathetic.

by Aadik on May 2, 2006 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Pedro frustrates me as much as anyone, but if the guy is hitting primarily 7th, or like today, even 8th, I couldn't care less that he's setting the table for Matheny and pitcher. I don't want him walking. I want him driving guys in. Players should be judged based on what they do given their roles. I'd be overjoyed with 80 RBIs from the 7th spot, and I'd be pretty surprised to find that on any other team in the league. OBP only helps if someone drives the guy in...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on May 2, 2006 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could not disagree more...
Pedro makes outs at an incredible rate regardless of his position in the batting order. Furthermore, the significance of proper lineup construction is not so large that a crappy #5 hitter suddenly becomes useful when he bats eight.  Also, Feliz, a player beginning the decline phase of his career, has shown decidedly middling power over the past year.  He is not a homerun hitting savant but an all-around below average hitter.
Prediction for the 2006 Giants season: Pain

by kenshin1 on May 2, 2006 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
There is so much hatred toward Pedro now that somehow I've gone from criticizing him to seeing if there might be some evidence on his side. For me, run production is important. The great players always seem to find a way to score around 100 runs and drive in around 100 RBIs no matter what team they're on. The truly great ones, such as Bonds and Pujols, get on base all the time and drive guys in.

Then there are guys like Mueller and Pedro. I was curious how their run production compared to each other. I am by no means a stathead, but I found this interesting. Pedro, in 1680 ABs, has scored 210 runs and driven in 248. Mueller, in 4116 ABs, has scored 651 runs and driven in 478.

What does this equate to? Pedro scores once every 8.00 ABs and drives in a run every 6.77 ABs; Mueller scores every 6.32 ABs and drives in a run every 8.61 ABs. In other words, there's a trade-off here. We need guys like Mueller hitting first and second, and guys like Pedro hitting later in the line-up where they can pick up some RBIs and not cause too much other harm.

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on May 2, 2006 3:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Feliz...
looks far less impressive if you compare his RBI/out to Mueller's thougb.
Prediction for the 2006 Giants season: Pain

by kenshin1 on May 2, 2006 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
I would prefer that we get rid of Pedro. In fact, I just emailed some friends today to say that I wouldn't mind an experiment of Frandsen at 3B and Finley trying 1B start as soon as possible. I guess I'm trying to figure out myself how a guy that drives in that many runs can be so bad. Maybe part of it is that our run production was so bad last year that Pedro led in runs with 69, RBI with 81, and HR with 20. Alou had 19 HR, and a few guys had close to as many runs, but the next-closest RBI guy was Alou with only 63. Ouch. I guess it's not too hard to stand out in a crowd like that. And I don't just mean the Giants, considering that Jeff Kent was the only player in the NL West to drive in over 100 runs last year...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on May 2, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
I guess I'm trying to figure out myself how a guy that drives in that many runs can be so bad.

BECAUSE RBIS ARE MEANINGLESS

by zenbitz on May 2, 2006 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
zenbitz, you really need to look up the word "meaningless." No they are not. Just because the stat has its faults, as every stat does if used incorrectly, doesn't make it meaningless.
yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
BA-RBI-HR are salary numbers, with RBIs and HR given the highest reward.  Hitter get paid for RBI's and Jacks. Its a media thing that translates to Fan support.  The folks who wish to cast some perspective on RBIs make valid points.  

I don't buy the incapable of making an adjustment argument on Feliz behalf. His stupid swinging out of his ass at ridiculous looking pitches in the vain hope that the pitcher will make a mistake with location, regardless of pitch count or game situation is not some insurmountable chronic physical ailment.  It is stubborness combined with overaggressiveness--nice trait for a gang-banger in a territory squabble, but not for a MLB player.    Those are baseball fundamentals taught at the lowest levels on up.

But he gets paid to hit bangers and rbis, so he swings as such.

by E Ticket on May 2, 2006 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
I don't know about the reasons for Feliz' failure to learn and adjust, it could be he just has a harder time doing so than others with more talent at pitch recognition. Who knows, other than Pedro, but I do agree with your points about RBIs.

I think perspective on what stats mean, any stat - RBIs included, is a good thing. RBIs mean what they mean in the rule book. When a batter drives in another runner or himself he gets credit for it in the form of an RBI (with some exceptions.) Is that meaningless? No, but it must be put into perspective. For instance, the ability of teammates to get on base obviously effects the number of RBIs. As well, the number of chances a batter has to drive in other runners effects any evaluation of a batter's effectiveness in RBI production. I'm not stating anything new to most folk here, but what I am saying that seems to be forgotten by some is that RBIs do reflect a gross figure of accomplishment of driving in runners. That is not "meaningless." Rather, it is one part of the picture.

It is not meaningless to drive in 80 runs in two consecutive years. It doesn't mean that that Pedro is the best "clutch" hitter on the Giants, but it does mean that he was able to play enough for him to accomplish that feat - including one year on a team that was dead last in OBP. Could other players have done better given the same opportunities? Most likely many could have, but the fact remains none did over the last two years. So, when we evaluate Feliz, let's take that into consideration.

yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Ah, should have read 2nd post.

I will clarify:

When I say RBIs are meaningless, I don't mean that they don't mean ANYTHING - clearly they are a record of something happening.

HOWEVER, what they are not is useful in evaluating baseball players in any way, shape, or form without further data (RBI-opportunities).

individual RBIs are actaully MISLEADING.  If you hit a sac fly with no out and the bases loaded, you hurt your team  (unless you are the pitcher, or hit like one).

by zenbitz on May 3, 2006 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Kindly tell me what stat doesn't fall under all of your qualifiers you set out for RBIs? Anyone who evaluates a baseball player based on one stat is just plain foolish. That goes for OBP or OPS or any other stat you care to mention. Do rbis need to be used with more caution than others? Perhaps, but my point is to use stats in combination to create a more accurate picture and to always look behind to see what a stat is or isn't telling you. The whole point should be to give greater understanding of the reality we see, not to create false realities based on a preconceived bias. Wouldn't you agree?

In Pedro's case, the use of rbis help to show a fuller picture of his strengths as a players. To stop with them would be a mistake, but then I'm not the one making categorical statements about their use being meaningless. What a "gross" stat like rbis does show is the fact that certain things are done over a given period of time. They show, in the case of season stats or career stats, that a player was able to play long enough to accomplish the feat in question. Not something to be dismissed with a wave of a dogmatic hand.

As to your last statement - it all depends on the game situation doesn't it? No one could think that a sac fly with no outs and the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth that drives in the winning run would hurt your team. I know it is part of some stathead dogma to state simplistically that making outs hurt your team and getting on base helps, but real life tells us it isn't always so.

yob

by Sayhey on May 3, 2006 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Yes, except in the bottom of the 9th in a 1 run/tie game.  About the same time sac bunts are useful.

What fraction of RBIs fall into the above category?

Find me one comparision of two players A and B in which the only way you can tell B is better than A is that he has more RBIs.

by zenbitz on May 3, 2006 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
I think your missing the point, zenbitz. Comparing rbis from any player A to player B isn't very helpful by itself, but looking at rbis as a contribution to a given team's run production (the 2004-5 Giants?) is useful, especially when the role a given player - say Pedro Feliz for instance - is taken into account. So perhaps saying Pedro had 80+ rbis over those two years DOES give us some useful information.

With sacrifice flies or bunts, I stand by my statement. It is all about game situation. At times they are extremely helpful to a team, at others they are not. The same can be said of the walk. In general it helps a team, but when a 8th place hitter takes a walk with RISP and two outs it's most often a mistake. One could also add the need to look at game situations in terms of not just the innings and score, but also the type of team one has. Small ball was VERY effective as played by the Cards in the '80s and the Dodgers in the '60s.

yob

by Sayhey on May 3, 2006 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
You need to look up the word "Hyperbolae" (non-mathmatical) version.

by zenbitz on May 3, 2006 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Could we use the statement "BECAUSE RBIS ARE MEANINGLESS" as an example of hyperbole? http://www.bartleby.com/61/63/H0356300.html
yob

by Sayhey on May 3, 2006 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Yes, that was my point, it's hyperbolae.

by zenbitz on May 3, 2006 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Great. We agree then, RBIs are not meaningless.
yob

by Sayhey on May 3, 2006 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz...
Compare Pedro's hr ratio to Mueller's and I think you will find Pedro's is better. That is not to say Pedro is a better player than Billy, I don't think he is, but he has his strengths. The point isn't whether another team's thirdbaseman is better, but rather do the Giants have a better option AND why do so many posters refuse to evaluate him in a rational way. The idea of DFA'ing him is just plain stupid.
yob

by Sayhey on May 2, 2006 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
As a stat head, if pedro slugs .500 he's adequate, even with his wretched OBP (say .302).

by zenbitz on May 2, 2006 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Nice comments from the Pedro defenders.  I guess I fall into that group, though by default.  I would prefer to be considered part of the group who "picks your poison when constructing a lineup."  

Not everyone has a great hitting 3B or even an average hitting 3B.  People seem to think that a $90M payroll entitles them to power-hitting corner infielders and outfielders.  But Bonds, Schmidt, Finley, Durham, Alou, and Winn take up more than half the payroll.  That don't leave much for power hitting corner infielders as well as all the other players on the team.  And while Pedro has a much below average OBP (though he is only about 20 points away from the league average), he is however average to above average in SLG, and there are not that many 3B who hit more homers than he did the past two seasons.  

Every team except for the Yankees have to accept position players who do not hit well relative to similar position players.  So while our corner IF are average to below, their corner OF are average to below.  Or they have Neifi starting at 2B while we have Durham.

Between the two, I want a high SLG from my 6-7 hitters than a high OBP.  You don't drive in runs with a walk or even a single when the 8th place hitter and pitcher are coming up.  That's why when Bill James constructed his runs created formula there were initially two key components:  OBP and SLG, with SLG the component related to driving in the runs.  That's what we want our 6-7 hitters doing, not starting a rally with the 9th spot's black hole automatic out coming up.

It's easy to dump on players when they get off to a slow start.  That happens all the time in fantasy leagues (and I'm guilty of it too, forgive me Edwin Encarnacion!), the fan gets upset over the player not doing well and just dumps him.  It's the knee-jerk reaction, no one can accept failure of any type when your team is struggling to stay around .500.  If only we had David Wright/Miguel Cabrera/Scott Rolen!  Then we would win all those games!

Feliz has actually been hitting like normal for him at home overall, it was just the "perfect storm" situation for Feliz that the road games we have played have been at parks he historically have done poorly at.  His numbers should not be Mendoza Line bad as the season goes on, it will be his normal Feliz-tastic numbers: mediocre with plus power, as he gets to visit the parks he normally hit well in as well as get into baseball shape, since the WBC and the rainouts probably interfered with his preparations for this season.  His recent success hitting appears to signal that he's finally getting into proper shape (for him) for playing his best baseball.

If someone can get me a better 3B (Mueller is not better, just different) who hits 30 homers with a .300+ average at the same salary as Feliz, sign me up, but for his salary and abilities, we could do a lot worse, like Corey Koskie, Jeff Cirillo, Eric Hinske, and Vinnie Castillo.  I would even throw Aurilia in with that group, he makes a lot less but his hitting the past two years is all Great American Park's doing, his road numbers stink.

I don't want to defend Feliz, he is what he is, a nice complementary part who, if he can hit like he did in 2003-2004, would be a pleasant surprise (and advantage) in the 6-7 slot, and if he did what he did in 2005, would be average among 7th place hitters in the majors for OPS.  As I noted elsewhere, the teams who went to the playoffs in 2005 actually all had below NL average 7th place hitters, so clearly having a good 7th place hitter is the whip cream on the sundae, complementary to the good top half of the lineup, but not a required ingredient to a winning team.

Yeah, Go Frandsen!!!

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 2, 2006 4:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
Not everyone has a great hitting 3B or even an average hitting 3B.  People seem to think that a $90M payroll entitles them to power-hitting corner infielders and outfielders.  But Bonds, Schmidt, Finley, Durham, Alou, and Winn take up more than half the payroll.  That don't leave much for power hitting corner infielders as well as all the other players on the team. *

OK, so you spend good money on good players, and close to nothing on below average ones.  But Feliz is cheap, he's ~$4M/year.  The roster is FULL of guys like this, and has been the entire Bonds era. Alou+3M/year = Vlad.  

* And while Pedro has a much below average OBP (though he is only about 20 points away from the league average), he is however average to above average in SLG, and there are not that many 3B who hit more homers than he did the past two seasons.   *

It is not arguable that Feliz, for his career is a below average hitting compared to his peers (NL 3B) And that's not counting all the times he's played LF/1B (higher quality of peers).  I actually think Feliz makes an excellent super-sub.  He can play 1B/3B/LF even RF/SS!  And he has pop!  But he's over his head as a starter (except maybe at SS.. but I don't think his D is adequate).

*Every team except for the Yankees have to accept position players who do not hit well relative to similar position players.  So while our corner IF are average to below, their corner OF are average to below.  Or they have Neifi starting at 2B while we have Durham.

Well and good.  Just pay the sucky players what they are worth: ML minimum, or close to it.

Feliz is a cut above waiver wire fodder.  He's overmatched as a starter, and overpaid for a back up.  And he's mired in a month-long slump.

Why are we forced to pay Feliz $3.5M to play 3B like a typical AAAA guy?  Because our farm system sucks for position players.

And no, there is no good option for the Giants right now.  Just because Feliz is the best option doesn't make him any good.  (See Tim Worrell, closer)

by zenbitz on May 3, 2006 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
You are speaking to the choir about Vlad, it still bothers me that they said that they couldn't afford Vlad when they could have took their Maddux money and the money they used on Tucker and Hammonds and just a couple more millions than that and we could have paid for Vlad's first year salary with Anaheim.  I wrote that up in an article long ago, let me know if you want to see the math.  I suspect they might have punted on Vlad with an eye on getting Moises for Felipe to be together..

But that's the past.  This last offseason was not about getting Vlad over Alou, it was about what alternatives we had at 3B.  He was it for the most part, particularly with the Alfonzo white elephant hanging over our head, if you'd rather have Alfonzo starting at 3B...

By what basis are you judging he is over his head as a starter?  I've heard this so many times that I went onto ESPN and pulled up all the 3B who played last couple of seasons to see if this is true or just an urban myth.  I found that Felix fits in with that, it is not a huge disadvantage with him at 3B, it is either an urban myth or maybe wishful thinking driving people to say he is inadequate offensively at 3B, he is just not Rolen, Chavez, or any of the truly good 3B in the league but in reality most 3B aren't that good.

That fits in historically with the lack of 3B in the Hall of Fame.  As much as people like to talk about offensive 3B, there were so few of them that really stood out that 3B is underrepresented relative to other positions, according to an article I read somewhere (Hardball Times?  Dan Agonistes?  Futility Infielder?  Baseball Musing?)

I agree that he probably would do better as a super-sub for us, but that's not really a choice for us this past off-season.

Tim Worrell did fine for us as a closer, he only did poorly the two games he imploded when Benitez came back.  I think he will be fine the rest of the season, he's been pitching well the past 6-7-8 seasons except for the first couple of months last season when he had severe personal problems, he had a low 2 ERA after coming back last season.

Please look at the 3B who have been playing the past couple of seasons (2004 and 2005) and compare what they did with what Feliz did as a supersub and assume Feliz would have hit as well as he did if he were the starting 3B the past couple of years.  He is not the best but neither is he this so bad a stinker that skunks avoid him.   He is what he is and that's not as bad as so many people are making him out to be.

Yeah, Go Frandsen!!!

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 4, 2006 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of Pedro
"The flu is management's decision not to replace Jeff Kent's bat."

Thats the beginning, middle and end -- short version-- of why the Giants have bitten, since Kent's departure. That and the non-reoccurrence of Aurilia's career year by another Giant Hitter.  This has been a team of one and one/half offensive impact players since. Bonds/Alou

The real problem this year is a very ordinary pitching staff.

As much as I despise Feliz' offensive play, he is not the cause of the Giants ordinariness. He is merely a sympton of Management Disease.  Chronic Unwillingness to do anything other than the minimum required to fill up Peter Magowan's four-story phone booth on a daily basis.

by E Ticket on May 2, 2006 8:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Have to disagree
(or one dropped easy pop-up during a playoff series we were going to lose anyway).

No.  That was in Game 3.  If Timmy closes out that game, we're up 2 games to 1, so we're guaranteed to go back to Pac Bell for game 5 with Schmidt on the hill.

That dropped fly ball cost us the series.

Please go away Pedro.

by The Balls of Summer on May 3, 2006 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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OT: Super Bowl Losers: Colts, Advertisements
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Elitist East Coast McCC meet up.
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Angel Villalona Community List Poll
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OT: Super Bowl Predictions
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The In Context Case For The Franchise Getting $13M
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Your 2013 World Series Champions! (2k9)
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My National Pastime Can Beat Up Your National Pastime

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