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Around SBN: Phil Mickelson Outshines Tiger Woods

Two-faced Felipe

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 3:59 AM PDT

Before the first game in San Diego, Felipe Alou offered a Bible-inspired challenge to anyone intending to chastise Barry Bonds.

"Those who feel clean, go ahead and throw the first rock," Alou said. "If you're clean, if you haven't done anything wrong or been accused of anything wrong, go ahead and start the show."

Interesting philosophy there, Felipe. How come you didn't employ it when you spent a week calling Larry Krueger the "Messenger of Satan," successfully lobbying to get him fired?

Oh! I get it! Bonds in the lineup helps pay your salary. Krueger doesn't sign your paychecks, and said your brain had turned to mush. Now I understand.

Hypocrite.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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El Chiflado!

Did he really do that?

As we discussed at length last year, El Chiflado is probably not your most educated (formally), "cultured," or secular soul. FYI, the Evangelical "movement" in the Caribbean is huge and growing.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Apr 4, 2006 4:10 AM PDT reply actions

Apples and Oranges

I don't think that it is even remotely hyprocritical.

by hammystyle on Apr 4, 2006 8:41 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Everyone hates a dirty rock-thrower.

by keithr on Apr 4, 2006 1:08 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Hammy...I like Felipe just fine as a manager. But as a moralist, he's a little out of his depth.

Here's his hypocrisy, and it isn't a very clouded issue:

Felipe viewed Krueger's braindead comment as the unforgiveable sin.
Many fans and sportswriters view Bonds' steroid use as the unforgiveable sin.
Felipe invokes the Bible to protect Bonds.
Felipe uses his power to crush Krueger.
Damn hypocrite

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 1:46 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

The reasons it's apples and oranges:

o Kreuger insulted others (i.e Flip)

while

o Bonds risked his health, or if you prefer "cheated" to hit more dingers.

I think the only way you can draw a comparison is by saying the BB did what he did (whatever that actually was) just to make $$$, and the same can be said for Kreuger.

by zenbitz on Apr 4, 2006 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Since the issues are unrelated it's not hypocrisy. If Barry starts ripping into Carribean players for being "braindead" and "hacking at slop", and Felipe still defended him THEN he would be a hypocrite. If Felipe starts tearing into the Gagnes, Sheffields, and Giambis across the league for steroids THEN he would be a hypocrite.

BTW - I agree with those who said that Felipe was justified in calling Krueger out. Krueger messed up there not Felipe. I also think Felipe did right buy backing his player in Bonds.

by hammystyle on Apr 4, 2006 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

You're right, moggeee, it isn't a very clouded issue. And yet, you still can't quite understand it. I actually thought Alou completely overreacted to Krueger's comments, but your argument for why that makes him a hypocrite is deeply, deeply flawed. In fact, you seem to have the same approximate grasp of the word "hypocrite" as Alanis Morrissette has of "ironic". Never in your argument have you explained how Alou did something he said people shouldn't, or didn't do something he said people should.

Read the quote you sighted again. Maybe a little more closely this time. He said it's only okay to criticize if you haven't commited the same sin you are criticizing someone else for commiting. Therefore, for you to show he is a hypocrite, you'd have to present evidence that he too made racist remarks prior to criticizing Krueger. Protecting one person, and crushing someone else isn't the least bit hypocritcal unless they are guilty of the exact same sin. That is not the case here.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 5, 2006 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

In an effort to display how poor your numbered argument is, I'm going to mimic your points, substituting other particulars, but keeping the identical thread of logic (or lack thereof):

I view child molestation as the unforgiveable sin.
Pro-lifers view abortion as the unforgiveable sin.
I am pro-choice.
I condemn child molesters.
I am a damn hypocrite.

Do you see how little sense that makes? For my argument to hold any water, #2 would have to read "I view abortion as the unforgiveable sin". Just as in your argument, #2 would have to read "FELIPE views steroid use as the unforgiveable sin". But you don't mention how Felipe feels about steroid use in general, which is critcal in proving your argument. In fact, your argument essentially assumes that Felipe MUST agree with whatever fans and sportswriters think. I can see you were never on the debate team.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 5, 2006 3:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

They don't call it Alou-catraz for nothing.

"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Apr 4, 2006 3:07 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

that's the cream o' wheat talking...

"When am I ever gonna have a chance to win a lousy freakin' championship? One time! Not twenty! One lousy GD time!" - Chris "Mad dog" Russo

by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 4, 2006 3:13 PM PDT reply actions

Here's a quote for Felipe

Go ahead, Felipe, use scripture when it suits your needs.

Alou, that Bible-thumpin' Puritan, could and should have invoked another famous Christian edict after the Krueger insult.

"Turn the other cheek."

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 4:09 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Krueger's comments were racist crap. Period. How anyone can defend him is absurd. Why should have Felipe accepted a self-serving apology in order to white-wash Krueger's conduct and the conduct of others on KNBR? While it my feed fans egos to think they're smarter than Felipe, it goes way over the line to feed that sentiment for profit and self-promotion based on Alou's ethnicity. I'm just glad the idiot(s) got fired and sorry to hear he got a settlement.

As to Bonds, I not a religious person but I think the biblical reference is apt. Especially in a clubhouse were there are more than likely others who may have "experimented" with some chemical help for their game. Every team has a lot of answering to do about their conduct with PEDs, so let's be very slow in making scapegoats.

by Sayhey on Apr 4, 2006 4:21 PM PDT reply actions

Felipe's Golden Double Standard

Krueger got a settlement because he deserved one. His comment was racist, and he apologized on air before any comment or apology was made known to Felipe.

Since Felipe is quoting the Bible again, let's stick to the point: Krueger had broadcasted for seven years without such an incident ever happening. Have you gone that long in your life without uttering something vile and stupid?

If so, you and Felipe are both Saints. Get your bag of rocks from the Giant manager's office.

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 4:35 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Felipe's Golden Double Standard

I've said many stupid thing in my life and I'll probably say some more. I don't talk racist crap about people's ethnicity, but sure I've said many things I've regretted. That doesn't mean I have to accept people talking racist trash in order to hype their show. It sure as hell doesn't mean that Felipe, who has gone through all kinds of attacks directed at Latino ballplayers has to sit back quietly and take more of it and say "no problem." I just would like to see this outrage you direct at Alou directed at the racist critics when they attack him instead of jumping to criticize Felipe for his "intolerance" of other's racism. There are somethings in life we all should be intolerant about; racism is one of them.

by Sayhey on Apr 4, 2006 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

The sad thing is, other than the "carribean" adjective... the giants WERE hacking at slop nightly.

by zenbitz on Apr 4, 2006 5:35 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

What's sad is that we have to listen to Damon Bruce hacking as sports nightly

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 7:49 PM PDT reply actions

Pardon my slur....

What's sad is having to listen to Damon Bruce hacking AT sports nightly

by Moggeee on Apr 4, 2006 7:52 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

sayhey....what a yob you are

the off handed comment was hyped by the radio station itself....not krueger

I heard it aired live...and I didnt think twice about it....till the next morning when they put krueger on radnich's show....and he was being aplauded for making the comments

may I suggest you listen to the bits on racism by the late, great Lenny Bruce.

Words only have power if you allow them to...

by bacci40 on Apr 5, 2006 1:28 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Thanks, not sure what a "yob" is, but I'll take it as a compliment coming from you. Krueger is obviously a great guy who only made this one mistake and Felipe is obviously just being totally unreasonable to take offense from such a saint. Pardon me, if I take Felipe's side in this - even if I risk being called a "yob" by someone who knows everything about me based on a few lines typed over the internet. I should also say, I never excused the radio station for its role in this. In fact I was just as glad to see the firing of the station manager as I was of Krueger.

My take on this is that there are still a number of former listeners, perhaps including yourself, who loved the way Krueger berated the Giants, particularly Felipe and Feliz and can't forgive Alou for being offended when his criticisms crossed all lines of what is acceptable. In fact, it would seem that some, including perhaps yourself, are so invested in those criticisms that they are willing to look the other way when racism rears its ugly head. Indeed, let's take the opportunity of Felipe expressing his solidarity with Barry and trying to build team unity to again show how it was Felipe's problem, not Krueger's, in the first place. Again, pardon me, if not being part of your numbers makes me a "yob." I'll wear the name with honor.

By the way, I've heard Lenny Bruce's routines and the idea that his comments on word usage should allow us free reign in the use of racist language is a total misunderstanding of the power of language to help create the world we live in. I think it's also a misunderstanding of Lenny Bruce as well. Like Bruce, I'm all for resisting the power those words have, but that doesn't mean denying their effect.

by Sayhey on Apr 5, 2006 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Not for a moment did I support Kruger, nor was I particularly fond of his show. His comments singling out a certain ethnicity were stupid and ill-informed and perhaps he did deserve to lose his job. (I did not the context of the "Cream of Wheat" comment to be at all inappropriate; it was meant in the tone of "This guys tried everything to the right the ship and it's turned his head into mush".)

That said, I think Alou could have handled it in a much better way than he did. Being the bigger man and using it as an opportunity to encourage dialogue rather than going into the "messenger of satan" rhetoric would have been far more productive. It certainly leaves him open to criticism now for a "throwing stones" reference.

Hop on the Finley bandwagon!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2006 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Goofus, my main problem in this is not with people who raise concerns like you. Your point of "promoting dialogue" maybe a very good one in many cases. I would point out that Felipe's response resulted in effective action in that it stopped the racial slurs coming from KNBR's online personnel. I can't fault Alou for his honest response of outrage or his refusal to deal with folks who thought it ok, and even funny, to belittle him on the basis of his nationality and age. Perhaps if it was you in the situation you could have accomplished more with a different approach. What drives me crazy is the attempt to turn Felipe into the villain because he is outraged by racism. NO, no, and no. Krueger and KNBR brought this on themselves and THEY deserve the outraged response of baseball fans everywhere, not Felipe.

As to the "throwing stones" references, others in this thread have already stated it better than I, but criticisms would be due Alou about "throwing the first stone" if he were critical of people on the basis of race or ethnicity. He is not, so the only use of the biblical reference toward Felipe is an ill-informed one.

yob

by Sayhey on Apr 5, 2006 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

To set the record straight; Krueger never belittled Felipe on the basis of his ethnicity or age. His "Carribean" slight was directed at the hitters. The "Cream of Wheat" comment, as said I earlier, was made in defense of Felipe.

Alou had every right to be offended at Krueger's ill-advised choice of words.

To elaborate on the "throwing stones" reference; it goes both ways. If you're going to call a person who makes a stupid comment a "messenger of Satan", your house better be squeaky clean and shouldn't be made of glass.

Hop on the Finley bandwagon!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2006 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

"To elaborate on the 'throwing stones' reference; it goes both ways. If you're going to call a person who makes a stupid comment a 'messenger of Satan', your house better be squeaky clean and shouldn't be made of glass."

So, show me where Felipe has made similar comments based on people's ethnic background, and I'll join you in saying he should get his own house in order before making such statements. But I haven't seen anyone even allege he has said such things. You may think the "messenger of Satan" reference was over the top, but it seems like an apt phrase coming from a religious man who thinks racism is evil. In short, I still don't see any hypocrisy here on Alou's part.

yob

by Sayhey on Apr 5, 2006 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

Sayhey,
Just like Felips wasn't talking only to steroid users when saying people criticizing Bonds shouldn't throw stones, he doesn't have to be someone who makes racist comments for his words to be less than productive, in my opinion.

Hop on the Finley bandwagon!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2006 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

To set the record straight; Krueger never belittled Felipe on the basis of his ethnicity or age. His "Carribean" slight was directed at the hitters. The "Cream of Wheat" comment, as said I earlier, was made in defense of Felipe.

I didn't hear Krueger's original comments so I don't know the context of the Cream of Wheat comment. But I have to believe that Krueger knew what he was doing: he was trying to get callers. Cream of Wheat is as loaded a brand as we have and it's hard for me to believe that there wasn't a racial/ethnic subtext to his comments.

by noahthek on Apr 5, 2006 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

In listening to it, I took him to mean that the suckitude that was the ream had destroyed Felipe's brain.

I think Felipe was right to critize the Caribbean comment; but not as much the cream of wheat. Though, even if he meant the cream of wheat thing as a defense of Felipe, is still a shot at his managing. Essentially, it is saying that Felipe is making stupid decisions because his team stinks.

I want Joe Nathan back.

by irwin on Apr 5, 2006 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Two-faced Felipe

I've got an idea for a documentary, bacci40. You and I go to Compton, and I film you while you explain to the people there how the n word isn't actually offensive unless they allow it to be. Are you up for it?

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 5, 2006 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions

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