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40-Man roster is full

by Pants Man on Dec 8, 2006 2:21 PM PST Comment 23 comments

The Giants' website lists 38 players as being currently on the 40-man roster... the addition (or reappearance) of Bonds and Kline will bring that number to 40. If a Zito or a Klesko or a Riske is going to be added, someone is going to have to be voted off the island. (I don't think you can use the 60-day DL in the offseason... can you?)

The good news, if you could call it that: we have a fair amount of dead weight on our roster.

There are aging players with career-threatening injuries (Matheny, Worrell).

There are veterans we could trade (Benitez, Sweeney).

There are AAAA hitters who seem to be getting squeezed from the active roster (Niekro, Ellison).

There are live-armed AAA pitchers who we may be able to sneak through waivers given their significant injuries (Valdez, Threets).

There are players who are spinning their wheels and giving off an "organizational guy" vibe (Ortmeier, Knoedler, Munter).

There are the "is this guy possibly going to be ready to contribute at the big league level before he runs out of options?" guys (Ishikawa, Acosta).

And then there's Maude.

We may only need to waive one or two of these guys, but I think we should be prepared to waive more should we get the chance to grab some interesting names that other teams are forced to waive this winter.

I have included only the most likely candidates for DFA in this poll for simplicity's sake, and because it's difficult to rationally consider the other options when you're given the choice of dumping Benitez.

Poll

If the Giants sign another free agent, who should they drop from the 40-man roster?

Acosta

14 votes

Ellison

33 votes

Knoedler

23 votes

Munter

14 votes

Ortmeier

10 votes

Threets

7 votes

101 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Re: 40-Man roster is full

In this order:

Matheny
Worrell
Ortmeier
Knoedler
Ellison

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 8, 2006 2:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Yeah, I'm curious how the Matheny thing will play out. Will he retire? Will we release him? Will they come to some sort of injury settlement? Maybe something where we pay him his 2007 salary but are off the hook for his $2M buyout in 2008? We'll see...

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 8, 2006 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

I also am positive that he'll retire, and I'd think that an injury settlement is given, if I vaguely remember (possibly made up) past similar situations. He's getting money, one way or the other -- the MLBPA will make sure of that.

by lunaticfridge on Dec 8, 2006 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Matheney's owed $3.75 million in salary for 07, then $2 million in deffered signing bonus for 08. The Giants are apparently going to offer him a coaching job of some sort. My guess is that he still gets the 08 money and his salary is reduced in 07, but who knows by how much?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 8, 2006 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

My bad, Pants is more or less correct. His $2 million in 08 is a buy-out. For 07 he's owed $2.25 million AND $1.5 in deffered signing bonus. So, the $1.5 million is probably guarenteed, the $2.25 is negiotable, as likely is the $2 million buy-out.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 8, 2006 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

what he said.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

I'm curious about Worrell. I haven't heard anything about his recovery. He went on the DL with a bulging disc in his neck, then had to have arthroscopic surgery on his throwing shoulder. He's 39 and will be 40 before the end of next season. A retirement announcement wouldn't surprise me at all...

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 8, 2006 2:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

The Giants owe him $2 million in 07. I'm guessing another buy-out. He retires and the Giants give him half of that? Kind of a forced retirement.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 8, 2006 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

KooKoo

I'm guessing all the time on the DL and all the injury talk is disguising the fact that Worrell is a whack job -- the rumors started in Philly.

by Moggeee on Dec 8, 2006 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

No buy out. His contract is guaranteed while he is injured. It will be dead weight on the budget. MLBPA will not allow him to retire while injured even if he was kind enough to do so.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 9, 2006 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Even when the doctors are telling him to do so for his own safety? I think there will be a buy out, because of the life threatening circumstances. Playing is not an option.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 10, 2006 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

I've never liked Munter and Knoedler/Ellison are non-prospects too, but obviously the first dead weight to go should be the useless vets Worrell and Matheny.

DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 8, 2006 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Well.

Matheny isn't going to come back so there's one spot. If Worrell is in the same boat you can lose two spots right there.

Benitez might be a bit hard to trade, but if you get a Sexson/Burrell perhaps you can send Benitez/Sweeney for him? I don't think I've heard this before, but it would take care of a few things: Benitez is gone, Sexson/Burrell is here, you clear a spot on the 40-man, you don't need to keep 3 1B (Aurillia, Sexson/Burrell, Sweeney).

Niekro wouldn't be bad just to keep around for a year in case one of our 1B get injured, just for a callup. Ellison is the one I see going. he just doesn't seem like he'll be a baseball player.

As for the Noodler, Ortmeier and Munter, you need to keep the Knoedler because otherwise you wouldn't have another catcher. Ortmeier, well you either lose Ellison or the Ort. Personally I'd miss yelling ORT ORT ORT! And Munter, well do what you want with him, when his sinker is working use him, when it isn't don't use him. I wouldn't mind him starting out the season on the 25 man.

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 8, 2006 3:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Dudes,

This is not the NFL. You can't buy out someone's contract. That's why they call it GUARANTEED money.

The only exception is when it's an option year that has a negotiated buyout the team (or player, or both parties) can choose in lieu of exercising the option.

Matheny is under a guaranteed contract for next year, as is Worrell. Matheny has an '08 option that will be bought out. There's no negotiating that amount. Even if Matheny wanted to give that money back, the Players' association wouldn't let him.

Getting back to the point of this thread: They'll put Matheny and Valdez (who had TJ surgery) on the 60-day disabled list. That frees up two spots. If Worrell can't pitch again, they can 60-day him as well.

There may be a limit on how many players you can have on the 60-day at any one time...not sure on that. But if so, I can't imagine they cap it at two or three. Probably more like five or six.

by kintetsu on Dec 8, 2006 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

I think the people here have a better handle on the situation than you're giving them credit for. You're right... if Matheny absolutely wants to get every penny of that contract, there will be no stopping him. He can show up to Spring Training, go through whatever tests and therapy the Giants want him to, and keep cashing his paychecks (including a nice $2M option buyout at the end of the season). And if he announces his retirement tomorrow, he'll receive nothing more than whatever deferred signing bonus money is left.

What we're talking about is negotiating an injury settlement in between, in which Matheny announces his retirement, and the Giants agree to pay him some of what was left on his deal, possibly in return for him doing some other work for the organization. It looks like Bill Mueller is going to get his full 2007 salary to work for the Dodgers, so I would imagine we would offer Matheny his full 2007 salary as well and just be happy that we don't have to pay the $2M buy-out in 2008.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 8, 2006 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Understood, but it's very rare that players agree to do this. Robb Nen didn't. Albert Belle certainly didn't. I can think of Ryne Sandberg off the top of my head...I'm sure there are others, but this really would be rare for Matheny to leave guaranteed money on the table.

by kintetsu on Dec 9, 2006 1:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

You're right, and if it's important to him to get every penny, he will.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 9, 2006 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

As stated in another reply above, MLBPA will not allow an injured player with guaranteed years remaining on his contract to help out a team. Even if Mattheny were the ultimate team guy, the union would have his head.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 9, 2006 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

One correction:

What I meant to say in the first sentence is that you can't buy out a guaranteed year of someone's contract at a LESSER AMOUNT. (Obviously, you can release them and pay them what they're due. See: Rueter, Kirk.)

One other point: If Matheny is officially done, they can place him on the voluntary retired list.

by kintetsu on Dec 8, 2006 4:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

A good point in another board discussing this topic....if the Giants don't need spots until Spring Training, Valdez will make one spot available once he's put on the 60 Day DL. If the Giants sign any minor league contract players with a chance to earn a spot in ST, that's where such a spot could/should come from.

by BruteSentiment on Dec 9, 2006 1:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: 40-Man roster is full

Thanks. Do you know when we can start putting players back on the 60-day DL? Is it Opening Day or sooner?

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 9, 2006 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there really a reason..

To keep Valdez even? I thought that both is options are up and he just isn't cutting it anymore.

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 9, 2006 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Is there really a reason..

I think, but I'm not sure, that a DL assignment can't happen until the end of Spring Training.

I'd keep Valdez...why not? He'll be put back on the 60 Day DL, so he won't take up a spot on the roster, and he'll get the major league minimum.

It's not like it's a high cost for the chance that he'll recover, and the team would regret it if he did come through, but another team picked him up on waivers.

by BruteSentiment on Dec 9, 2006 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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