Title
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 8, 2006 10:45 AM PST
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PrintThere is that small part of me that wanted Bonds to go away. After #s 751, 752, and 753, there's going to be a media blitz like never before. You can read the headlines already: Why I Won't Cheer. Amazing Disgrace! Where Have You Gone, Horatio Alger? Penguin Rape Up 58%: Thanks, Barry. It'll come at a furious pace, and we'll all want to grab the national media by their collective lapels and beg them to just let the Giants suck in peace. We cheered every homerun, and now we'll have to pay for it like a character in some Greek myth.
But if there is a chance the Giants won't suck - and I maintain there is a small chance they won't - they will need Barry there. Even if just for 100 games, his OBP is crucial, and he's the only real power threat the Giants have. You know this. I know this. Apparently, the Giants know this. Bruce Jenkins might need a little more convincing, but I knew that. You knew that.
This has to be a short column because there are demons and imps taking pickaxes to my tonsils and sinuses right now. So I'll go straight to the comment starter, which is a simple list of priorites:
- Figure out how to get Richie Sexson or Pat Burrell without giving up Matt Cain, Noah Lowry, or Jonathan Sanchez. Or, figure out a way to snag Adam LaRoche, for whom I would trade Sanchez and, maybe, Lowry.
- One more righty reliever - David Riske, please - and one more lefty reliever. If Darren Oliver comes dirt cheap, I actually would take him. His peripherals were solid last year, which was his first as a reliever. Kline wouldn't be so bad to have back.
- One more starter of the Jamey Wright variety. I like Hennessey more as a reliever, and the team will need someone behind Cain/Morris/Lowry/Sanchez. Go for an old guy who will only want a one-year deal, or a cheap deal on a reclamation project like Tomo Ohka.
Edit: It wasn't made especially clear up there, but I still really, really, really wanted Barry back. Let there be no confusion on that point.
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Re: Title
(Guessing 1.5M per year + another $1.5M Option of .5M Buyout). As for the Righty, let Bochy make what we need out of what we have.
At this point I would pass on trying to trade for a bat. It just ain't going to happen without Cain, Lowry, or Sanchez. Instead I would do what ever it takes to sign Barry Zito with the 2007 dollars that would have gone to this bat and whatever future dollars it takes.
Re: Title
by whataboutbob on Dec 11, 2006 6:03 AM PST up reply actions
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- Do we have to ban you from your own site?
- Grant has ESP, Giants sign Kline.
- I have a bad feeling they'll go for someone more expensive and not that good, or they'll go insane and pay Zito 150 million. Yay!
Re: Title
- There's got to be a Benitez for Burrell deal sitting there in Philly just waiting for Gillick to give the okay. I like Sexson, and Seattle has been pegged as having a horrible offseason thus far, but I think they'll want Lowry or Sanchez and I'd rather have LaRoche for that price.
- You got your wish Grant. No, the Giants didn't trade Feliz for Cabrera, Kline was resigned. You can put me in the "Sign Riske" camp. Besides his pitching abilities, think of all the bad puns that come with a reliver with such a name.
- I'm a little worried about this last point because when Sabean hears fifth starter, I'm afraid he's going to go the Suppan route and I don't want to go there. We already have too many ex-Padre batters and now we're going to be the city where old Cardinals pitchers retire to stud? Ugh.
Re: Title
- Aubrey Huff
- We just signed Kline to 2 more years. Adding Everyday Eddie would be nice, if it wasn't for too long or too much.
- Tony Armas
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 11:08 AM PST reply actions
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i really hope that bringing barry back doesn't mean that we have stopped looking for another bat (however, knowing the giants, i think it has).
by benson11 on Dec 8, 2006 11:14 AM PST reply actions
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As for deferring Barry's salary, it's definately possible. I do remember, however, that the new CBA limits the amount ACTUALLY deferred to only 2M/yr and anything beyond that has to be reserved with this year's cash.
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Biggest baseball hangover in the history of mankind once the All Star Game is over. Which means even more face time around here for the most despicable man in baseball. Bud Selig.
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 11:15 AM PST reply actions
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by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 11:17 AM PST reply actions
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by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
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I suppose I'm a "realist" when it comes to looking at our chances in the 2007 campaign. Do I hope they win 100 games and romp through the playoffs? Absolutely. Will that happen? Absolutely not.
I simply don't see a contender at this point, though there are still some pieces to add. I pretty much see the same team as last year with a little more speed and a lot less pop, less starting pitching and a younger bullpen, though with a much better manager (mediocre as opposed to senile). On this subject, the rose-colored glasses don't exist.
As for Bonds, I'll put my pro-Bonds record up against anyone, and I expect that he'll play about 120 games and put up 25-30 homers next year, assuming he is healthy. At his age, you just don't know, but as of now there isn't a reason to believe he'll miss too much time for any serious injury.
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
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by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 8, 2006 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
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by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
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But I guess if you are focusing on a player by player basis, yes, they are slower, so I see your point, but all I really care about is the net effect and overall, I think the team will be "faster" in terms of stealing more bases, which I think will add runs to our meager offense.
One other plus I've thought about is that Roberts learned at the feet of Maury Wills and Wills taught him how to not only steal, but to keep a high stolen base percentage (damn, just realized that means Pierre might get better...) so with him here three years, just think of the benefits of him teaching all the speedsters in our system - Sanders, Burriss, Richardson, etc. - how to use their speed more effectively in stealing bases. That might even make Ellison a better backup OF if he could steal better, though he's probably in AAA next season.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 10, 2006 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
Bonds getting less than 756. I don't see that happening as things now stand. Having said that, much of it has to do with what kind of weight he is packing. The older one gets, the less the body tolerates extra poundage. Ironically, the older one gets, the harder it is to keep poundage off.
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
- FIRST BASE: If Sexson or Burrell are acquired, Aurilia gets pushed to the bench, and Frandsden gets bumped to never-never land. Might be a good time for the Giants to shop Frandsen. Mando & Frandsen for either Sexson or Burrell "only" adds $5m in pay-roll. The Giants line-up goes from average to good; the bench from unproven to solid. Sabean earns extra credit if one of the other teams throws in cash.
- BULLPEN: Kline. As good as anything else out there. Bochy loves his righty-lefty match-ups, so nice to have a proven lefty. Hopefully Tachner can hold his own. Low Riske, high reward is cool, and don't forget about re-signing Chulk.
- If Sabean actually pulls off a trade for a bat to protect Barry, then it is worth it to go for broke and do the backloaded contract dance with Zito.
Low Riske, high reward!
Chulk is under contract; he isn't even arbitration-eligible yet. I'm irrationally pro-Taschner, for what it's worth. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that his true value probably lies somewhere between his 1.59 ERA in 2005 and his 8.38 ERA in 2006.
Re: Low Riske, high reward!
I like Tasch too, and I'm rooting for him, partly cause I like him and partly because we need everyone to pitch in if we're going to do anything this season. :^)
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 8, 2006 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
Having some pitching mediocrity is a good thing, especially if it is cheap. Ohka has upside, too, and I would much rather have him than Gil Meche, especially if Meche is going to command Dreifort prices.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 8, 2006 11:33 AM PST reply actions
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Re: Title
I guess Matthews. While he isn't very good, and could immediately suck, he is already 32. He isn't getting any better, and the end years of that contract are going to be really horrible.
Meche is 28 and likely still has a career year ahead of him. He could still break out, and he did strike out a lot of batters last year. With teams always looking for pitching, he has to be really really bad to be untradeable. Plus, he could always contribute as an overpaid reliever.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 8, 2006 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
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by GiantJim on Dec 8, 2006 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 8, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 8, 2006 12:24 PM PST reply actions
Penguin rape, eh?
Re: Penguin rape, eh?
Except Mr. RIVera.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
Heeeee's Back!!!!!!
Re: Title
Either way, it's getting late enough in the game that we should probably consider one starter who is about as much "of the Jamey Wright variety" as you can get: Jamey Wright.
Some $1-$5M choices to round out the staff:
Tomo Okha
David Wells
John Thomson
Brian Lawrence
Chan Ho Park
Too Knee Arm Ass Jr.
Steve Trachsel
Jamey Wright
Or if we really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel:
Mark Redman
Shawn Estes
Seth Etherton
Pedro Astacio
Bruce Chen
Jason Johnson
Sterling Hitchcock
Ramon Ortiz
Runelvys Hernandez
Sidney Ponson
Brian Moehler
Russ Ortiz
Various pitchers to be non-tendered at a later date
I apologize if any of you were trying to eat your lunch while reading that list.
Re: Title
At any rate, Ohka is the jewel of that list, sad as it may be.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 8, 2006 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
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The Mariners indicated to John Thomson's agent that he'll be a fallback option if they don't land their primary targets at the winter meetings.
Seattle needs at least two and maybe three starting pitchers, and Thomson would be an inexpensive choice to fill one of the holes. If the Mariners decide he's not a priority, it won't be long before someone sneaks in and grabs him.
Re: Title
by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 8, 2006 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
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by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
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by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
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by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 8, 2006 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
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"I'll marry you if my first choice don't work out, OK?"
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 8, 2006 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
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WTF? Do Sabaen and Magowan have a cellulite fetish or something? My word, the number of fat asses that come oozing their way through GiantLand is amazing.
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
While this may be an idiot's knee-jerk reaction , it's based a little on what he had done lately to the D-Blanks.
Um...thank you , Russ.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
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by amoose on Dec 9, 2006 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
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Dumpster Diving
Steve Trachsel ALWAYS kills us. Why not have him on the inside of the tent pissing out?
I love Mark Redman as a #5 starter.
by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 8, 2006 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Dumpster Diving
I do worry that when we've used your "tent" strategy in the past, players like Portugal and Finley have done an awful lot of pissing inside the tent.
But the price is right, and Febreeze is on sale at Target.
Wright
Well's will be our 5th starter. He's wanted to pitch here last year and Bochy will bring him in. At least it'll only be a year.
We have more pitching options then hitting options and I'd feel a lot safer taking a chance with a young Lincicum or Minch then trying to find anyone to protect Bonds in our system. Then again, Niekro brakes out for 30 HR this year and wins a gold glove. Opps, I was just hanging out with Wright.
by Giant Escape on Dec 8, 2006 1:37 PM PST reply actions
Re: Wright
Wells, throws like a drunk.
Pass on both
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Wright
Wright throws like a girl.
David Wells throws like a drunk
Please god, pass on both.
Now it's a Haiku.
Re: Wright
I envision Sabean's final moves:
Wells- 1 yr/$2m
Riske -2 yr/$4m
Then the Giants' off-season is done, unless Sabes can move
El Guardo Logo / The Fat Man / Livan Part 2 / Mando.
Barry
To have even a chance at competing, based on the other moves made this offseason, the team needs Bonds. I care a lot about whether this teams wins and not so much about the whole home-run chase thing.
I'm not eager for the ongoing steroids debate, now amplified as Bonds nears the record.
Re: Barry
For me, the Mason-Dixon line was $14 MM... the arbitration mininum. That's the number Sabean had to get under, and he didn't.
Re: Barry
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Barry
Re: Barry
Hi, long-time Bonds apologist here, but no more. I thought we were done with it, I thought I was done having to lie to myself and tell myself that Bonds really does want to win.
He doesn't. The Giants don't. Bonds is bigger than this team and this organization both in his own mind and in the actions of the front office.
The 2007 Giants are set-up for the worst of both worlds: A frustrating, antagonizing losing season without it even being a rebuilding year.
Re: Title
- Why is no one considering Aubrey Huff? He can play 1st or 3rd relegating Aurilia or Feliz to the bench. I think he also plays the OF. Would like him in the lineup more than Winn. As a fall back, Craig Wilson is also out there.
- Kline is in the fold. Totally agree on Riske, he should be signed and proably could be had for a relatively decent price.
- Ohka, Wells & Thomson are proabably worth the risk. The others (including Suppan) will be money wasted.
Reality Check
Your '07 team will be very, very bad and no amount of Barry Bonds will fix that.
Here's why:
- Matt Morris was horrible last year and will only get worse.
- Jason Schmidt is playing for us now and, after Matt Cain, you've got no other reliable starters.
- Your team is older than dirt. Yes, many players on your team remember when "dirt" was invented and, judging from their age, many will soon be becoming part of dirt.
- Pedro Feliz. Let's put it this way: Yuniesky Betancourt had a substantially higher on-base percentage. Orlando Hudson outslugged him.
- Your minor lea...Sorry, I was laughing.
by dodgerfan on Dec 8, 2006 4:35 PM PST reply actions
Re: Reality Check
Re: Reality Check
by dodgerfan on Dec 8, 2006 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Reality Check
(Ummm...now how do I spin THAT positive?)
A guy wildly throwing 100 mph rocks. At Dodgers.
"My prediction? PAIN."
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Reality Check
Of course I still can't explain waking up one day and finding this three - inch scar on my scalp. Or my incessant slack - jawed drooling...
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
Tell Tommy I said Hello
Visit often. Feel free to opine, especially since this is a very liberal blog. We love you baby.
Re: Reality Check
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 8, 2006 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Reality Check
The Giants-are-old jokes have also been pretty well covered here, so you're gonna have to do better than "dirt". We just used "the pyramids" as a reference, but "Methuselah's uncle" is still available. As an alternate suggestion, "The Collossus of Rhodes was still in diapers when..."
I realize wit doesn't come naturally to Dodger fans, but if you really work at it, I'm sure you can become an marginally adequate contributor to MCC.
Hope this helps.
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
Re: Reality Check
by dodgerfan on Dec 8, 2006 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
Hey Bleed Dodger Blue
Powerful , Astute , Qualitative Reply Dept.
Nice job with that wild card representation there.
You've been called "The NL Yankees"...here's hoping you live up to that , ya Panzer ya.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Reality Check
...SITUATION TOMKO!
by victor frankenstein on Dec 8, 2006 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Reality Check
- Matt Morris will be better, bet on it.
- Yeah, but No-one-on Pierre will be not getting on-base leading off for you and Luis GoneRBIez won't be driving in runs for you either. Enjoy Schmidt's lack of killer-attitude too, while waiting for him to get off the DL. Teams who have Brett Tomko and Brad Penny on their pitching staff should not be talking about other team's unreliable starters.
- Yeah, and your 1B knees are made out of the same dirt, hope he can play more games than Bonds. Funny you mock the Giants strategy when Sheriff Ned is using the same strategy for your team (Kent, Gonzalez, Schmidt, Maddux, Garciaparra).
- Juan Pierre.
- Edwin Jackson, Greg Miller, Darren Dreifort.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 8, 2006 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
ZOMG
Re: ZOMG- Hilarious...
Your comment, unfortunately, was probably a little subtle for a Dodgers fan.
Red pencil
The cold medicine accidentally typed "suck in peace" as "suck in piece".
Re: Red pencil
'Twasn't a cold; it was strep. Yick. On the bright side, I was able to take today off to study for finals. On the downside, I finally got my Wii in, and the Wii Sports game was a little too strenuous for me.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 9, 2006 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
Gamer's Elbow?
Dodgerfan hires a hooker....
Hooker says: "Dood, you got some ugly ass feet"
Dodgerfan: "Uhm...Tolio"
Dodgerfan proceeds to drop trow.
Hooker says: Sheeeet boy, you knees is butt ugly
Dodgerfan: "Well, I had kneasles"
Dodgerfan proceeds to drop pink undies and Hooker bends over, doubled up laughing her ass off yelping:
"Wait, don't tell me, don't tell me....SMALLCOX"
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 6:16 PM PST reply actions
Re: Title
Phillips (clown jackass GM of NYM in former life) to Bonds: "What do you hope to learn at the winter meetings?"
Bonds looking at Phillips like he is a used condom: "The Magic Kingdom"
Priceless.
by E Ticket on Dec 8, 2006 6:20 PM PST reply actions
Re: Title
Giants signed RHP David Cortes to a minor league contract.
I don't know much about him, here is rotoworld's take:
Cortes, who had a 4.30 ERA in 29 1/3 IP for the Rockies last season, is a perfectly adequate 12th pitcher. As a flyball pitcher, he should be well suited for San Francisco, and if he makes the team, he'll be a definite candidate for vulture wins.
Re: Title
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2006 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Gotta Hope
by Giant Escape on Dec 8, 2006 11:51 PM PST reply actions
Barry
To the Giants, Barry is family. I can see why it didn't take much prodding for them to bring him back. Although I suspect they could have gotten away with a smaller offer.
But most important: I think nostocksjustbonds is on the right track talking about this team not being a contender.
i.e., Maybe after whiffing on several of the marquee free agents, the Giants decided they might as well carry Barry and make the hometown crowd happy when he breaks the record.
Re: Barry
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 9, 2006 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
I think Sanchez could be a sell-high kind of guy right now. He's young so you don't really know what's going to happen with him, and I know us Giants fans are jusifiably gun shy with the trading of pitching prospects, but if he could hook us 30-35 HR's a year, I think it would be worth it.
by elduderino on Dec 9, 2006 11:43 AM PST reply actions
Sanchez is good VERY good
Sanchez needs seasoning and the ability to use his entire repertoire. He shows the ability to be a solid #2 and should have a better MLB career than Lowry.
Re: Sanchez is good VERY good
Dumbass negotiating
To answer the 'fan vs. accountant' calumny -- that's right, I said "calumny" and I'm not taking it back!! -- I'm a fan, and knowledgeable fans understand that personnel costs money, and stewardship of resources gives you more options as the off-season and then the season wears on. $8M (let's say) going to Bonds that didn't have to... well, when some prime steak comes on the market in July, we'll have to settle for Sawdust Helper.
Bravo, Sabean, for winning the Tom Hicks Negotiation Dumbass Trophy for the 2006-07 winter season.
Not to mention,
Okay, I've got my ears on straight. Anda 1, anda 2
We're more like an off-key Mouseketeer SingAlong Jamboree.
Re: Not to mention,
Don't MAKE Me Pee My Pants
As opposed to incontintent.
Re: Don't MAKE Me Pee My Pants
And always, plenty of P.
Re: Dumbass negotiating
Besides, after seeing them re-sign Feliz, what would that $8M have done for us this offseason? It would have probably brought in another mediocre starting pitcher at $10-11M per season, tying up that money for 3-5 years. I would have been much happier with them playing Aurilia at 3B or even Frandsen than paying Feliz, then saving that money for next season.
I'm still unhappy they decided to pay Bonds that much guaranteed but on a relative scale, it is no where the worse deal made this off-season, not even close, to my thinking, as those players above were horribly overpaid for a long, long time.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 10, 2006 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Dumbass Dodger Dilettante
That Dodger fan laughed at us for Feliz, but we're only stuck with him for a year, they have Pierre for 5 glorious unwalkable years, and his numbers in Dodger Stadium have been pretty bad, so there goes his batting average too, his only real offensive asset, as he has no power, for half the season (at home). This signing will be their offensive bookend to the Darren Dreifort contract that hampered their payroll (and team) for years. And I do mean offensive (rim-shot)!
Ned finally showed some of his old Giants colors and did them in with that one. And we'll see if Schmidt works out either, he's been amazingly injury free the past two seasons, after years of injury-marred seasons. Maybe there will be some catchup in 2008. And given how Little kept Pedro out there when he had lost it, we'll see how well he does with Schmidt.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 10, 2006 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Title
I was sad to see him go and would like to see him back since hes a free agent. High reward, zero risk. Put him in AAA and see what happens
Who's with me?
by April3rdLifeBegins on Dec 9, 2006 11:28 PM PST reply actions
Re: Title
2003 - Broken shoulder blade
2004 - Elbow inflamation
2005 - Torn rotator cuff/shoulder cartilage
2006 - Did not play
Re: Title
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Molina - Walker - Benitez - Wells - Ortiz.
"Younger and Healthier"
by dodgerfan on Dec 11, 2006 4:59 AM PST reply actions
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