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Around SBN: Leandro Damiao Is Still Really Good

More Lowry

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 5, 2006 8:49 AM PST in News

IF: Ted Lilly is worth a four-year contract close to $10M per...

THEN: Noah Lowry, signed for the next four seasons for a total of $14M, is one of the biggest bargains in the game.

You can't front on that logic. I went over a lot of this here, but that was before Lowry's name was actually coming up in rumors. Lowry for Sexson? Not a fair deal. Lowry did have a down year last year, but he's pitched more 200-inning seasons than Lilly over his career. Sexson is good, but owed far more than he's worth. Lowry for Ramirez, with the Giants neglecting to sign Bonds? That'd be a legendary blunder, as Lowry + Bonds = more financial flexibility for 2008 and a better team for 2007.

I'm not saying that Lowry is destined for greatness, but that he's destined for competence. He's already established he can be a middle of the rotation starter, and should only be dealt for pre-arbitration players or for young players whose arbitration years have also been bought out. Mike Jacobs, maybe. Wily Mo Pena and friends, perhaps.

But you just know -- feel it in the pit of your soul -- that one of these is going to come about:

Lowry for Jacque Jones
Lowry for Garrett Anderson
Lowry for Richie Sexson
Lowry for Melvin Mora
Lowry for Geoff Jenkins and Derrick Turnbow
Lowry for Pat Burrell

And it will be followed by one of these:

Jeff Suppan for 4/$40M
Mark Mulder for 2/$15M (with incentives)
Jason Marquis for 3/$27M

It's going to be something like that, and I'm leaning toward the Jenkins/Turnbow dealie with a side of Marquis. Mmmmmm, that'll be some good fury. I can't wait.

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Comments

Other possibilities

How about Lowry for Baldelli or Crawford?
Would you do a Lowry for Nick Johnson or Josh Fields and Brian Anderson?

Also I heard a deal that includes both Lowry and Sanchez. Lowry and Sanchez are mutually exclusive so it is an "OR" and not an "AND" proposition.

by wilriv21 on Dec 5, 2006 9:00 AM PST reply actions

Re: Other possibilities

I like Lowry for Crawford, as much as I don't want to lose Lowry. I hope you are right about trading one or the other of Lowry or Sanchez. Losing both would be a head explodingly bad decision.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 9:37 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Other possibilities

Absolutely I'd do Lowry for Crawford. I like Lowry, but Crawford's potential is too much to resist. If we trade Sanchez at all, my head will explode.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 6, 2006 7:12 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Sabean and the Giant's eternal drive for mediocrity has finally gotten the best of Grant.

Join the club.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 9:21 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Let's see... Lowry is under contract for four years and $14M. If he was a free agent right now, he might end up with four years and $46M. I'm all for trading him for Sexson if Richie's two-year $28M deal is also a $32M bargain.

I guess it just comes down to if Sexson will be worth $60M over the next two years. Why do I doubt that Sabean is looking at it this way?

And you're absolutely right about the Bonds/free agent pitcher fallout, Grant. I like Burrell, but a Lowry-Burrell deal would really be...

Lowry (four cheap years) and Bonds (one expensive year)
for
Suppan (four expensive years) and Burrell (two expensive years)

We'd be worse in 2007 (probably), and would just keep accumulating bad contracts.

C'mon, Brian... finish the year strong. I promise I won't bitch about the Feliz and Roberts deals too much if you promise not to screw this up.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 5, 2006 9:22 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

One thing I noticed that gave me hope in today's Chron: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/12/05/SPGAGMPH981.DTL

"At the same time, Sabean is meeting with several teams about acquiring a power hitter -- to complement Bonds or replace him -- and a meeting was scheduled with the Red Sox to discuss Ramirez. Any deal with Boston likely would involve a third team because the Red Sox need more than the Giants can offer.

They want a closer and shortstop, and Nationals GM Jim Bowden admitted he's in a three-way conversation (without mentioning the teams) and could offer Chad Cordero and Felipe Lopez. The Giants would send young pitchers (not necessarily big-league ready) to Washington and receive Ramirez, who's owed $38 million over the final two years of his contract."

The "not necessarrily big-league ready" was intriguing. Perhaps we've been over-valuing Manny in this conjecture and Boston is delaing from a position of weakness since everyone knows they want to get rid of him.

If an idiot like me can see Lowry has a lot of value because of his contract, a smart guy like Sabean has to realize it as well, right? (Goofus asks innocently.)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 9:23 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Well, in this iteration the Red Sox are getting Cordero and Lopez and some salary relief for Ramirez, so that's not nothing. They could play Pedroia at SS, Lopez at 2B, Cordero at CL, Papelbon as a SP, and they have more money to upgrade OF and sign Matsuzaka.

The question is what the Nationals would want in return for Cordero and Lopez and some salary relief of their own. I'm thinking this would mean something like Sanchez(our best not necessarily big-league ready pitcher)/Lewis(Bowden loves toolsy OF)/Correia(bullpen arm to replace Cordero)/lower level prospect(maybe from Red Sox).

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 9:52 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Sanchez and Lewis for Manny; I'd buy that for a dollar.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 9:53 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Yeah, that's definitely not enough. It seems almost enough from the Nationals perspective but not enough for the Red Sox. Maybe we send EME and a reliever to the Red Sox as well. It's hard to come up with other possible parts if Lowry is not one of them and Cain is untouchable. Vizquel? That would make Lopez redundant.

This all seems pretty far-fetched.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 10:03 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably keep Sanchez over Lowry. I'm a sucker for high ceiling over proven competence.

by mxmob33 on Dec 5, 2006 10:03 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Me too. I might be over reacting about Lowry's huge K fall off, but I personally feel that Sanchez's future is brighter.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 2:34 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Me three. Love that potential.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 6, 2006 7:15 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Can anybody explain to me how Ramirez could possibly "complement Bonds"? Have we switched to the AL when I wasn't paying attention?

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 5, 2006 10:47 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

There was speculation last night about Bonds in LF and Manny in RF.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 7:25 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Will the Giants win 70 games next year? That's the question we should be asking...

by gdog @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 5, 2006 9:37 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

"Lowry for Jacque Jones
Lowry for Garrett Anderson
Lowry for Richie Sexson
Lowry for Melvin Mora
Lowry for Geoff Jenkins and Derrick Turnbow
Lowry for Pat Burrell"

all of these would be typical sabean. i'm all for getting another big bat - but not at the expense of one of our current starters. i hope the mention in the chronicle - 'not necessarily big-league ready' is true. geoff genkins and pat burrell seemed like they could be had if the other team just took on their contract. for us to give up lowry and take on the money would be a crime.

by benson11 on Dec 5, 2006 9:42 AM PST reply actions

Just Saw this on Rotoworld

The Mercury News believes the Giants would have to send Noah Lowry, Jonathan Sanchez and Brian Wilson to Washington in order to pull off the rumored three-team Manny Ramirez deal.

That's most of the quality young pitching in the organization right there. If the Giants were willing to do that, the Nationals could send both Chad Cordero and Felipe Lopez to Boston, with Ramirez going to San Francisco. Still, a deal is considered a long shot.

I know its just rumors but if that trade went down I think I might throw up all over myself.

by xanthan on Dec 5, 2006 10:00 AM PST reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

I nearly threw up all over yourself just reading that. God, no.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 10:02 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

I can see the headlines now "Giants Get Ass Raped In 3 Way!"

by xanthan on Dec 5, 2006 10:04 AM PST up reply actions

Would that actually be news in SF?

by wilriv21 on Dec 5, 2006 10:45 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

OK, that at least makes more sense.

I don't think the Giants should do it, but it makes more sense.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 10:12 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

That is just barftacular.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 10:19 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

Barfpendous!

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 10:43 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

I can barf things better than you can,
I can barf anything , better than you.

No you can't
Yes I can

I cant seem to remember the name of that old show tune. Or actually what musical that was from seeing as I dont't go to musicals.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 5:34 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Just Saw this on Rotoworld

That would be "Anything You Can Do" from the musical "Annie Get Your Gun."

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 6, 2006 7:17 AM PST up reply actions

Age is not a factor when you're dead

A hip-hoppy tune written by Irving Berlin, who was Sabean's choice to play left field if Bonds refused to sign.

by Moggeee on Dec 9, 2006 8:23 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

How would you guys suggest picking up another big bat and keeping our pitching in place, or better yet, getting more pitching? I don't deny that Lowry's contract is a great one in this market, but I'm just curious what you think could really get things done. (I'm assuming we could sign Bonds, so I mean someone beyond just him.)

The fact that guys were sitting on Lowry's change-up last year was pretty scary. I don't know if his velocity dropped or something, but he had a pretty scary decline in strikeouts in 2006. I could see him staying fairly strong and being a solid middle-of-the-rotation guy, or I could also see a Rueteresque decline happening. I suspect Sabean is banking on the latter.

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Dec 5, 2006 10:05 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

How about trading Benitez for Burrell? (Hi Zenbitz!)

Regarding Lowry, I think we'd be selling low since he's coming off the oblique injury. Whether he wasn't fully healed or it screwed up his mechanics, I think he's likely to be much better this year and is a guy we'd regret trading. (I don't want to refer to him as "Noah Nathan" all season long.)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 10:11 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

You're right. Oblique thingies are mysterious. If one comes back too soon, the recovery time is exponentially longer. He just looked "not right" physically for an awful large part of last season.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 5:36 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

That's why I wouldn't mind if they were able to get a big bat for Lowry. There's very little chance we'd have to watch him go on to be a Cy Young contender with another team. The most painful thing that could happen is him being a solid middle of the rotation guy.

In other words, we kind of know his ceiling by now. And we also know that his value could drop Jerome-style if he doesn't rebound next year.

by mxmob33 on Dec 5, 2006 10:13 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Keep Lowry. Sign Barry. Sign Craig Wilson or trade or trade some mid-level guy for Burrell. Richie at 3rd, Pedro at super-sub. Get one more SP and RP and say "we're done".

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 10:17 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I'm kind of thinking along the same lines. If there's any way we can trade lower-level prospects (in terms of league, not talent) for someone like Burrell or Morgan Ensberg, this is what I'd like to see them do. I don't know who teams would want, though, as the reason I'd want to do this is that these players statistically have little chance of panning out, and of course owners know this as well. If we can package together some younger guys, it keeps Lowry in place, allows us to have enough money to sign Bonds and someone like Maddux, and be fairly competitive, assuming the Dodgers and Padres don't make some huge moves before the season starts.

Next question, then: who would you have to get in return if you traded, say, Linden along with Correia or Hennessy? Also, who do you think we could realistically get?

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Dec 5, 2006 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Great question! I keep hearing that Philly is desparate to dump Burrell. I guess it depends on whether they see him as asset or liability.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 11:11 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I heard Pat Gillick being interviewed this morning on XM and on the subject of trading Burrell he spoke at length about Baltimore being a good matchup for the Phillies (because of their pitching depth). Neither Pat nor his interviewers (who are all terrible it must be said) mentioned the Giants as a potential trade partner.

by Roger on Dec 5, 2006 1:10 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

The Chron reported that the Giants and Phillies have talked.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Really? When?

Please, Sabes, stop the hurting.

by Punch Rockgroin on Dec 5, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/12/05/SPGJFMPILR1.DTL

"The Giants also have had conversations with Philadelphia about Pat Burrell and Milwaukee about Geoff Jenkins, but nothing is imminent."

The Phillies are apparently holding out for Benitez.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 1:47 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Elaborate on "holding out for Benitez" s'il vous plait.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 1:51 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

OK, if it's in the CHRONICLE, I guess everyone is now UNbanned.

by zenbitz on Dec 5, 2006 3:45 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

WeakFinger.

by Moggeee on Dec 6, 2006 12:26 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I love this plan, Goofus, but after the "sign Barry / trade for Burrell" part, I think the Giants would run out of budget. The Giants' SP and RP signings would be something along the lines of Russ Ortiz and Shawn Estes (i.e. ST invites).

Not that giving young pitchers a shot would be armageddon. I get ripped for wanting the likes of Linecum, Sadler, Wilson, etc. to get a chance to show their stuff. It probably would be a mess- but it would be fun as hell to watch the few young guns who did begin shine... there will always be surprises (and lots of disappointments) with young pitching.

From the way Dallas Green is talking publicly, I think Burrell is definitely gunna stay put in PHI. Yet, I do think Lowry will be traded. My guess is Garret Anderson. Don't ask me why, but I've always had a strong hunch (going several years back) that Garrett Anderson would be the guy who replaces Barry in left field (and that the move wouldn't work, leaving Giants fans disappointed).

The dark horse trade bait is Kevin Frandsen. With Lowry, you would be selling low. With Frandsen coming off a killer AFL showcase, Sabean might be selling high...

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Dec 5, 2006 12:17 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I'm just not sure what to think about Lowry at this point. His change-up was just not the same last year as it was in 2004 and 2005, and I think this is why his K rate fell off a cliff. Before, guys would know the change-up was coming and still swing and miss. Not last year. I don't know if the injury had something to do with this or not. If my memory serves, his velocity was as good last year as it's always been.

I think you would really risk trading low at this point if he can get that change-up back. If he can't get it back, then this is as good a time as you will find to get something for him. Without knowing anything more, I would probably want to hold onto him and find out, but hopefully the Giants have a better idea about this.

As to your question, if we don't trade Lowry it's going to be really hard to get another big bat. We either have to trade for a bad contract or get lucky with a AAAA 1B. I think a lot of people have given up on getting a big bat for this year and just want to have our young pitching in place for future years.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 10:22 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Two words: Travis Ishikawa

I continually ask myself why I am a Giants fan.

by Shawn Estes for President on Dec 5, 2006 3:39 PM PST up reply actions

for the San Jose Giants?

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 4:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Lowry is young, LHP and inexpensive so teams should crave him. He is also a #3 starter who can return talent to the Giants plus Sanchez could take his place in the rotation. Currently Giants do not possess a solid starting rotation but if they can fill out the rotation a trade of Lowry is worth inquiring about. While many want a power bat for 1B (I say we can trade for Kotchman on the cheap) i prefer a Crawford or Baldelli in SF.

by wilriv21 on Dec 5, 2006 10:24 AM PST up reply actions

Good Trade Hunting

Will: He used to just put these trades on the table,
Lowry for Jacque Jones
Lowry for Garrett Anderson
Lowry for Richie Sexson
Lowry for Melvin Mora
Lowry for Geoff Jenkins and Derrick Turnbow
Lowry for Pat Burrell, and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with Sexson there.
Will: I used to go with Jones.
Sean: Why?
Will: Cause f*ck him, that's why.

by hammystyle on Dec 5, 2006 10:18 AM PST reply actions

Re: Good Trade Hunting

Awesome. But it's not Will's fault.

Dodgers fans eat their young.

by redhornet78 on Dec 5, 2006 11:01 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Good Trade Hunting

That's better than any movie analogy I will ever do. Kudos. I can picture them saying it.

A+++++++ COMMENT! LOVED READING IT!!!! WOULD READ POSTS FROM AGAIN! CREDIT TO MCCOVEYCHRONICLES.COM!

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 5, 2006 6:40 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Good Trade Hunting

If you ever talk about Liriano again, I will end you. I will f*cking end you. Got that, Chief?

Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 5, 2006 10:50 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Hello,

This is a great blog. I'm going to be sure to link yours to mine. Would you mind doing the same for me?

Thank you very much.

My site:
www.americanlegends.blogspot.com

Take care,
Mark

www.americanlegends.blogspot.com

by JMEnglish on Dec 5, 2006 10:18 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

If one of them has to go, I would rather see SANCHEZ go than LOWRY. LOWRY could wind up as a TOM GLAVINE type.

If the Giants were somehow able to get MANNY (maybe for SANCHEZ, LINDEN + PROSPECTS) and sign Bonds, what would the lineup look like??
Might it be:

CF ROBERTS
SS VIZQUEL
LF BONDS
IB MANNY
2B DURHAM
3B AURILIA
RF FELIZ
C MOLINA

Not much youth, but that would still be the best lineup in the division....
The advantage of having AURILIA & FELIZ is that they can play several positions and be moved around. I dont think that FELIZ has played RF, but he's a good fielder with a good arm, and could probably learn it....

????????

If so - do we then trade LINDEN or WINN???
WYNN has a no-trade clause, but would probable be agreeable to a trade if he knew that he would not see any playing time in his FREE AGENT year.

BARRY & MANNY are a couple of prima donnas, but I have a feeling that they might go well together.
They're both very competitive, and we certainly would have a lot of pop with the above lineup...

If we're going to spend $$$'s for another pitcher, my first choice would be MECHE.
Youngest with the biggest upside.

Thoughts on this?????????

by maysman on Dec 5, 2006 10:25 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Glavine has a couple of Cy Youngs to go along with his soon-to-be 300 wins. If Lowry approached half of that success, it would be a suprise.

by mxmob33 on Dec 5, 2006 11:09 AM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Feliz played some RF in either 2003 or 2004 if I remember right. Don't recall how good defensively he was but will point out that they stopped using him in RF after that season, from what I recall.

Now sign the big boy....

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 5, 2006 11:38 AM PST up reply actions

He played..

2 innings in right in 2003 and 4 innings in 2004.

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2006 1:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Manny at first base? How many innings at 1B has Manny played in his career? Feliz in RF also paints a scary picture. These aren't just tins of soup that you can move around on the shelf.

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Dec 5, 2006 12:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

tin of soup = better batting eye than Feliz

by zenbitz on Dec 5, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions

Zero at first for Manny.

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2006 1:02 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Isn't Winn's free agent year in 2009 or something?

Omar don't scare.

by SF Pete on Dec 5, 2006 1:23 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Just saw the post on ROTOWORLD.
I'd like to get MANNY, but LOWRY, SANCHEZ & WILSON is just TOO MUCH!!!!!!

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS TRADE!!!!!!

by maysman on Dec 5, 2006 10:30 AM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

OK - I'm coming back to reality....

In spite of what SABEAN may be saying, THERE IS NO WAY THAT BOTH MANNY RAMIREZ AND BARRY BONDS WILL BE ON THIS TEAM NEXT YEAR. They play the same position and neither one is going to change.

This is how things will probably play out:

SABEAN will make a ridiculous trade and give up
LOWRY, SANCHEZ & BRIAN WILSON for MANNY.
MANNY will VETO the trade, thinking that the GIANTS are going to sign BONDS and change his position.

BONDS - pissed off that the Giants tried to trade for MANNY and dump him - will sign with OAKLAND.

WE'LL WIND UP WITH NO ONE AND GET SCREWED!!

by maysman on Dec 5, 2006 11:39 AM PST reply actions

Actually..

Manny was a RF earlier in his career. I know triples alley could get him caught, but could right in ATT be similar to left in Fenway for him?

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2006 1:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Actually..

I agree with this. Bonds in LF Manny in RF would be better in terms offense minus defense than Bonds or Manny in LF with Winn in RF. I think Manny will play RF if we pick up one of his 20 mil option years.

by cksf on Dec 5, 2006 1:18 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

What just came to my mind was that song in the 80's, "Look at all these rumors...".

I think we all should have whiplash thrice-over, from all the rumors we have been yapping after - and I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

But I agree that Lowry's contract is very good and the only reason to trade him would be to get a good young hitter who we can control for a number of years too. With Lincecum possibly ready by mid-season, all you need is someone to keep the seat warm until Tim is ready, in the ideal situation.

Barring a Miquel Cabrera trade, I don't think there's many out there I would trade Lowry for, he has a great contract, even if he is mediocre, and he had a down year that can be explained, so trading him now would be selling low, so what we would get would be a hitter someone else is selling low or just some hitter who is low. And if he is as good as he showed in 2005, then we could have a spectacular rotation over the next 4-5 seasons.

Now sign the big boy....

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 5, 2006 11:44 AM PST reply actions

Rumors

I've seen some brutal ones out there, and imagined some that are even worse. I have to keep telling myself, "If Sabean has made half of the horrible trade offers that I imagine he has, wouldn't some teams have eagerly taken advantage of him by now?"

That thought and the whiskey have got me through the week so far.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 5, 2006 12:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors

I'd rather trade Lowry than Sanchez, but I agree with OBG that trading neither is a good idea. It's not that I think having either Sexson or Ramirez (assuming there is no contract extention) is bad. They are exciting hitters and their contracts are only 2 years. They are basically expensive, talented stop gaps. And it would be fun to see either one protecting Barry next season.

But I think keeping Lowry and Sanchez makes the potential payoff better. If the Giants have four young strong cheap starters (Lowry, Sanchez, Cain and Lincecum), that is their best option for the future.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 2:56 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors

Sorry, Martin, got your handles mixed up.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

It would be a mistake to forget that Bowden is dumber than Sabean. Sabean's record at worst is mixed. if Cordero and Lopez will get Manny than i don't think we would have to give up Lowry OR Sanchez to get Cordero and Lopez.

by cksf on Dec 5, 2006 1:00 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I doubt Pedro's new deal has a no-trade clause...

"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Dec 5, 2006 1:40 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

No, repeat NO, Free Agent signee can be traded until June 1st. It is in the CBA.

by giantsrainman on Dec 5, 2006 2:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Seattle is not high on dealing for Ramirez:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mariners/story/6266429p-5468455c.html

"One of those rumors shot down Monday involved the Seattle Mariners, who were said to be considering trading first baseman Richie Sexson, who is owed $28 million over the next two seasons. The rumor early was that Sexson was involved in a trade that would bring Manny Ramirez - owed $38 million over the next two years - to the Mariners."

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 2:09 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I've been doing way too much thinking about this, and I just wanted to see if I have my thoughts straight...

Would you rather have a starting lineup/rotation of:

CF Roberts

SS Vizquel

RF Manny

LF Bonds

2B Durham

1B Aurilia

C  Molina

3B Feliz
Cain, Morris, Hennessey, Correia, Sanchez

or

CF Roberts

SS Vizquel

RF Winn

LF Bonds

2B Durham

1B Aurilia

C  Molina

3B Feliz
Cain, Lowry, Morris, $10 Million Warm Body, Hennessey

and you know that by not getting Manny, you've got a legitimate shot at Vernon Wells, etc, next offseason.

I'm starting to think that the worst case scenario is that first option, in which we stick to our budgetary guns, but still figure out a way to pick up Manny, because it will absolutely EVISCERATE our pitching staff and lead to outbidding the field for someone like Brian Lawrence. Yes, the lineup 1-5 could be the best in the league if the Mets continue to insist batting LoDuca in the 2-hole, but EVERYTHING would have to break just right for the pitching staff to succeed with that defense. Seriously, if we end up with both Manny and Bonds following Roberts and Dreamy, that's a formula for potentially monster success on offense, and utter disaster wrought on the young pitchers. It would be fun in a "I know! Let's repeat the 1998 Mariners season! Only with no young core!" kind of way.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Dec 5, 2006 2:25 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Time was, when one was getting busy in the boudoir and wanting to...keep the magic going so to speak, one could simply do the mental "What Will The Giants' Lineup Be Next Year?" thing.
Now?
Two words: "frightened turtle."

Sigh.

Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra. Feliz grounds out.

by HughG16 on Dec 5, 2006 3:43 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

i cant help but have horrible images of manny jogging after balls in triples alley and watching dave roberts sprint over while bonds watches with his hands on his hips thinking about what sunflower seeds he is going to eat during the next half inning.

by someguynamedg on Dec 5, 2006 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

now that i think about it....screw it lets see lots of those 9-7 games. I LOVE HOME RUNS

by someguynamedg on Dec 5, 2006 3:48 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Much better to win 9-7 than lose 4-3 I say.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 11:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

BBQ seeds are the best. I've heard Salsa is good as well. I had a friend in high school who loved Ranch flavored seeds. Poor misguided soul. This same friend was also the first person Kruk 'elminated' by request.

Please, Sabes, stop the hurting.

by Punch Rockgroin on Dec 5, 2006 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

Regular salted is alwas classic..

But Ranch is not bad..Nacho Cheese as well. BBQ I don't know about.

I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2006 5:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Jack Daniels sunflower seeds FTW.

Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 5, 2006 11:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

My feeling is that if sabean were able to sign someone like David Weathers, he would then have the confidence to trade Benitez for a hitter. I still a Benitez for Burrell trade would work for both teams. We would be essentially paying Burrell about $7M for this year. We could put him in at 1B and let Ritchie be the super utility guy. Weathers could close until Brian Wilson or someone else stepped up their game.

by benson11 on Dec 5, 2006 4:48 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Looks like Weather already signed w/ Cincy.

by amoose on Dec 5, 2006 5:16 PM PST up reply actions

Re: More Lowry

CBS News, 6:25 pm, Tuesday, December 5th, television

Reports that the Texas Rangers have offered Barry Zito a contract worth $102 million over six years.

Jesus H. Christonarake, that's a lot of money.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 6:26 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

True Weathers isn't available. I think i read on rotoworld that the giants had a workout with Dotel, but hasn't made an offer yet. Or something like that

Anyone else see that?

I am definately for going after Dotel, thus giving Sabean the flexibility to get Benitez out of here.

Benitez for Burrell (and probably a prospect is needed) would be an awsome trade for a number of reasons.

It gets Benitez out of SF. no ones complaining here
It brings in a power hitting 1B to complement Bonds.
We are aquiring a power hitter without losing the services of Lowry, which would likely happen in a Sexson or Ramirez deal. As others have stated, Lowry is a competent number 3 starter, and 1 of only 3 proven starters on this team (morris and Cain the others)

If Lowry is gonna go, it better be for a young stud (as Grant said)

I've been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder ever since Game 6.

by April3rdLifeBegins on Dec 5, 2006 7:17 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

I bet Sabean is taking flyers on anyone who could remotely close... Dotel, Turnbow, you name it. Just to get Armando out of here. Didn't Felipe lobby to get him released last year?

Burrell would be a good fit for SF. He went to school in SJ and may actually even want to play for SF.

by benson11 on Dec 5, 2006 7:36 PM PST reply actions

Re: More Lowry

Burrell must really want out of Philly, too. The fans have absolutely turned on Burrell there. The organization doesn't seem to want him either, but I suppose they haven't decided how little they are willing to take for him yet.

Burrell is definitely good. The Phillies may still be inclined to trade him for very little, though. No one in his right mind thinks that Benitez for Burrell is value for value, but the Phillies are essentially getting $19.4 million in that trade - Burrell's next two years' salary minus Benitez's salary next year. So sure, they won't get player value, but they get a ton of payroll flexibility - that $19.4m can go right into going after someone like Vernon Wells next year.

And it still makes sense for the Giants, because there are no 1Bmen available this year or next year outside a different trade, and Sexson makes $1m more over that time. Sure, it's expensive, but the Giants have no legitimate major-league first baseman and none in the minors anywhere close. You could even throw in a couple non-prospects to make the Phils feel better - how does Ortmeier and some random pitcher sound?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 11:00 PM PST up reply actions

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