Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I really don't get too worked up about voting for postseason awards or the Hall Of Fame. I appreciate a good subjective barstool debate topic as much as the next guy, but as much as I love the game, I can't get too excited about a sportswriter's ballot. Some people think, "Justin Morneau was only the third best player on his own team! This is an outrage!" I think, "Hmmm... Justin Morneau was only the third best player on his own team. What's for dinner?"
Given my lack of enthusiasm for this particular form of democracy, and my crippling steroid fatigue, I don't know why I decided to read Gwen Knapp's column about her Hall of Fame ballot this evening. But I did. And, boy, is it a doozy.
Early in the column, Knapp discusses the Mark McGwire controversy in a fair and rational manner that gives me faith in the ability of sportswriters to look at a player objectively when marking a Hall of Fame ballot:
McGwire's debut on the ballot brings a host of torturous questions. Did his refusal to talk about the past on Capitol Hill constitute an admission of steroid use? Is it somehow nobler to throw a spitter than it is to juice? Should McGwire be rejected for doing something that so many others did, including pitchers who tried to contain him? How many other users will slip into Cooperstown simply because Congress left them alone?These are difficult questions that require a great deal of thought, and answering them won't be easy. Oh, wait...
In this corner, the decision is easy. I can't honor a man for a past that he refused to discuss under oath.Okay, some of you may find this maddening, but I just find it hysterical. Particularly the idea that this was an "easy" decision, as if a bizarre and arbitrary statement such as "I can't honor a man for a past that he refused to discuss under oath" is a time-honored method of player evaluation that has served sportswriters for generations. Ah, yes, I remember the last words Leonard Koppett ever said to me: "You've got to look at the whole package, Gwen. How did he perform in the field? How did he perform under pressure? Most importantly... how did he perform under oath?"
I'm still waiting for the column where Knapp blasts her colleagues Williams and Fainaru-Wada: "Many of my fellow journalists have praised these men for their thorough investigative work regarding the BALCO scandal, but I can't honor men for a past that they refused to discuss under oath..."
Steroids will keep Gwen Knapp from voting for a man who hit 583 home runs, including 70 in one season. I disagree, but it's her opinion, and it appears to be the majority opinion. This doesn't bother me, as long as she is consistent and doesn't do something insane like vote for an admitted steroid user who hit only 239 home runs in an uneven career that was followed by cocaine and alcohol abuse, prison, and a fatal drug-induced heart attack.
The late Ken Caminiti appears on the ballot for the first time this year, along with the record-breaking Bash Brothers, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco. Only one of the three made real history.In 2002, six years after he was named the National League's MVP, Caminiti became the first prominent major-leaguer to admit that he had used steroids. He died two years later, at age 41, when a cocktail of drugs sent his already damaged heart into arrest. One of the last pictures of Caminiti showed him handcuffed and wearing an orange jumpsuit, preparing to check out of a Houston jail, where he spent 25 days for using cocaine and violating his probation in an earlier drug-possession case.
For me, none of that rules him out as a candidate.
I couldn't agree more, Gwen. I believe that steroids should not be a litmus test in an era of rampant drug usage. And anything that happened to Caminiti outside of baseball after his retirement is obviously irrelevant. I think you and I would agree that what matters is what he did as a player...
Nor do I care that he hit only .272 with 239 home runs in his career.Hmmm. Of course not. Hall of Fame voting shouldn't be cluttered by insignificant little facts such as how a player performed on the baseball field.
Oh, and if you're scoring at home...
Caminiti admitting his steroid use: "real history"
Canseco admitting his steroid use: not "real history"
McGwire evading questions about steroids while testifying before Congress: not "real history"
Canseco achieving the first 40/40 season, hitting 462 home runs and winning two world titles, rookie of the year and an MVP award: not "real history"
McGwire's 70-home-run season... well, you get the picture.
I'll admit that I'm a little old school on this issue, as I still believe that there's a difference between "historical acts" and "acts that I find morally admirable." I learned this the hard way in junior high, when my "Why Stalin Was Not A Historical Figure" essay only got a C-.
Anyway, Gwen Knapp is going to vote for Ken Caminiti because of his honesty concerning his steroid use, which some believe was a turning point in how we view steroids. In a way, I guess you could say Caminiti changed the game...
But I'm not voting for Caminiti because he changed the game.I'm trying to work with you here, Gwen. I really am. In a column full of reasons not to vote for Caminiti, you're going to have to give me at least one "I'm voting for Caminiti because..." sentence.
I'm voting for Caminiti because of who he was, a deeply flawed, widely beloved man.I absolutely adore this sentence. The problem with McGwire is not the flaw in his personality that caused him to take steroids or the one that caused him to stonewall Congress. It's that these flaws didn't run deep enough. It's tough to find just the right combination on this year's ballot. Albert Belle? Deeply flawed, but not quite beloved enough. Now, Dale Murphy is beloved, but he just doesn't have any deep flaws that I know about. If only he were a pedophile or something.
So, the clearly underqualified Ken Caminiti will receive one Hall of Fame vote this year. (Well, two votes. It would appear that Knapp got this brilliant idea from Tom Verducci, whose reasoning is just as sound, I would guess, and is in no way influenced by the fact that he was the reporter who broke the story about Caminiti's steroid use in the first place.) It's not a big deal, and he probably won't be the worst candidate to receive votes this time around.
But what bothers me is that it's a vote that screams "THIS VOTE IS ABOUT ME! GWEN KNAPP! OVER HERE! LOOK AT ME!" This is nothing new, as evidenced by the fact that five percent of the voters didn't vote for Babe Ruth or Willie Mays when they were elected to the Hall of Fame. Any hack can humbly fill out a ballot based on rational analysis, but an arrogantly misguided ballot, now... that might generate some press coverage!
You write columns for a major metropolitan newspaper, Gwen, so you already have the kind of soapbox that every shrieking talk radio caller in this country dreams about. So use it as such. The column is about you, so keep giving us your unique perspective on the sports world. Give us a "Caminiti Good/McGwire Bad" column every week for a year if that's what burns inside of you.
Your Hall of Fame ballot, however, isn't about you. So try to take a step back and take it seriously.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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73 comments
Comments
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I would like to take this time to ask the question "Gwen Knapp gets a Hall of Fame vote?!?!?!?"
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 2:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And while we're asking questions...
Great Sports Writer...
Or the Greatest Sports Writer?
by Snof on Dec 4, 2006 5:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by victor frankenstein on Dec 4, 2006 3:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by Kid Fresh on Dec 4, 2006 4:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by Snof on Dec 4, 2006 5:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by kintetsu on Dec 5, 2006 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by Roger on Dec 4, 2006 5:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by keithr on Dec 4, 2006 7:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Skip can't be all bad
by Moggeee on Dec 4, 2006 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Skip can't be all bad
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Ralphie hated Skippy. (Did he see himself?)
But if Bayless continually backed Bonds just to be controversial, his arguments nonetheless have been adopted as part of the canon of this site.
by Moggeee on Dec 4, 2006 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
If I was being sarcastic, I would not have written it the way I did. Subtle, I usually am not. It would have been profanity laced, injected, and basted.
Sinfuckingcerely
E
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Xmas
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...smoke a fatty and
take a big dump like you always do.
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HEY ITS YOUR BIRTHDAY THERE BIG GUY.
Now go die
And if you order now, we'll waive our usual $19.95 purchase price and charge your Visa or Mastercard the nominal S&H charge of $19.95
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: Intellectual Dwarfette
Knowing that Gwen Knapp has a HOF ballot continues to further denigrate the process of admissions. The BBWA or whatever demonstrate clearly that they are not up to the simple task of voting thumbs up or thumbs down.
Time for a new process.
Having these fuckwidgets determine membership in the HOF seems as fairminded as asking skinheads to vote in the NAACP board of directors
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 8:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: Intellectual Dwarfette
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 9:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Anywho, the book is an excellent read. Ms. Fornoff spent her time as an MLB beat writer with the A's in the late eighties but it's not just about that. It's about her work in college and why she loves sports and why she got into sportswriting, and it gives a short history of women in sportswriting. I found some resources I can use thanks to that book. Warning: may contain high concentrations of the X chromsome. Proceed with caution.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Fornoff at all. Probably because I wasn't much reading any sports stuff in the late 80s other than scorebooks.
As a matter of fact Susan Slusser is my favorite writer and Robin Roberts is my favorite tv commentator.
I must be missing some women as this is like an all or nothing list. Its Monday, and I'm not wanting to be in my office right now. I want to be in warm weather where the grass is green and time stops.
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I worship Lesley Visser. She's had opportunities I'd die for. First woman in the Monday Night Football booth, overall deep knowledge of sports, great presence; simply put, she rocks socks.
There are so few good women in the business and all the press goes to the Tits McGees. Gotta cling to the good ones.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I heard her interviewed on some sports talk radio show some years ago. She really knew her stuff and sounded like somebody well worth knowing as informative, entertaining, and totall intaking as opposed to off-putting like the bimbettes roaming the sidelines these days. Now I know why I like Susan Slusser; she reminded me of her in a more low key way. I really do miss Robin Roberts on Sports Center. She kicked butt on baseball, but she was better known for hoops because I believe she played in college.
Problem is the networks relegate women to trying to imitate men, only in short skirts, rather than just being women interviewing men. Something that Visser and Roberts are very good at.
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I didn't really get it until I did my first few interviews with pro ballplayers, but I understand that this racket is just people talking to each other. Ask questions, make observations, write what you learned. No need to make it about gender or whatever. There's always some shit that'll come out of sending a pretty girl to talk to a pro athlete but in the ten or so minutes it takes to speak to one of these guys it's not about that. It's about doing your job.
End soapbox.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
She's been doing radio broadcasting for over 20 years for goodness sake. She would be awesome in the booth. TV or Radio or both. The Giants have shoved everybody from Tim McCarver to FP Santangelo at us. Why not let us have Renel, at least during home games on FOXBA.
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
You're the first person I've encountered who shares this feeling with me (of the people who have voiced an opinion). I'm glad I'm not alone.
by howtheyscored on Dec 4, 2006 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another pro-Renel vote here
by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Another pro-Renel vote here
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I think she should stay right where she is; on PA. The energy and "hipness" that she brings to the loudspeakers would be damn hear impossible to replace. I doubt she'd want to give up her radio gig to go on the road with the broadcast team, anyway.
by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
...McGees!
by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"...in my office now..."
Blew THAT image right out of the motherf'in' water.
Thanks a lot , E...nothing you post will ever read the same.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 4, 2006 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now, there's something to look forward to
That would be your neck of the woods, AZ Giant Fan.
Scottsdale. Spring Training. 2007.
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
I miss San Francisco. That is all.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 1:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's more
I miss Honolulu.
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: There's more
I miss Hell. Strangest. Vacation. Ever. Nothing at the hotel was complimentary (including use of towels), but the Nine Circles Bus Tour was fantastic. And contrary to popular belief, the weather is great in July.
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: There's more
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Dec 5, 2006 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: There's more
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
Try St. John's, Newfoundland, where there is currently 40cm of snow on the ground - a frozen white blanket of tundra that will remain in place until late May / early June. Native Newfoundlanders tolerate the eteral gray of winter wtih a certain humor. As a transplanted Californian, the next six months of weather are fairly soul crushing.
When do pitchers and catchers report? Hope springs eternal.
by Kid Fresh on Dec 5, 2006 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Set Your Baseball Watches, Canucks
It's a festive time under the Aurora Borealis, when you can reduce your underarmor protection from three sets of longjohns to two.
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
by zenbitz on Dec 5, 2006 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
Last Spring Training game I attended I wished Nen a good game.
He acknowledged.
I swooned.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 3:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vic was promptly thrown out of the park
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
Just stop lumping all my stupid asides together and blowing the context.
What good is a snappy comeback if it shows up seven posts later?
by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by lunaticfridge on Dec 4, 2006 9:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 9:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by howtheyscored on Dec 4, 2006 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
It isn' the Honest Guy Hall of Fame. it's the Baseball Hall of Fame. What a moron.
Alex Sanchez admitted he took steroids. Clearly, Hall of Fame Material.
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 4, 2006 10:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
On how one becomes a voter: 2. Electors -- Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.
On criteria they're supposed to use when voting: 5. Voting -- Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 11:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Maybe. Of course if Knapp's column is to be taken seriously then Omar would best increase his chances by taking steroids and then confessing to Congress on CSPAN.
by non sequitur on Dec 4, 2006 11:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
More, from Bob Ryan...
I think you're a little confused, Bob. We waste time evaluating the past of baseball superstars. We waste a lot of it. I was up until 3:00 AM composing this nonsense last night. You get to vote on who is elected to the Hall of Fame. There's a big difference.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/11/28/a_no_vote_for_mcgwire/
by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: More, from Bob Ryan...
You're full of shit because you are a sanctimonious cunt. You are one more reason that newspaper circulation continues to decline. You are one more reason that HOF admission voting should be removed from self-serving cocksuckers like yourself and turned over to the players and MLB itself.
Go Fuck Yourself East Coast Shitbird
E
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
We all tiptoed away in doubletime.
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: More, from Bob Ryan...
-sigh-
clickBOOM....thud
by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post, Pants Man
by Salemicus on Dec 4, 2006 2:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Excellent post, Pants Man
Silly sportswriters. I can just see the 1938 version of Bruce Jenkins telling us how Jesse Burkett was better than Babe Ruth.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 2:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by kintetsu on Dec 5, 2006 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Seriously, though. It would truly be a disgrace if Caminiti got more votes than Will Clark did last year, since the only areas in which Caminiti exceeds Clark are the squalor of his life and the tragedy of his early death.
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 3:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the "i"s have it!
by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: the "i"s have it!
by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clark whups on Caminiti again
Originally, it was Clarkiniski.
by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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