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Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided

I really don't get too worked up about voting for postseason awards or the Hall Of Fame. I appreciate a good subjective barstool debate topic as much as the next guy, but as much as I love the game, I can't get too excited about a sportswriter's ballot. Some people think, "Justin Morneau was only the third best player on his own team! This is an outrage!" I think, "Hmmm... Justin Morneau was only the third best player on his own team. What's for dinner?"

Given my lack of enthusiasm for this particular form of democracy, and my crippling steroid fatigue, I don't know why I decided to read Gwen Knapp's column about her Hall of Fame ballot this evening. But I did. And, boy, is it a doozy.

Early in the column, Knapp discusses the Mark McGwire controversy in a fair and rational manner that gives me faith in the ability of sportswriters to look at a player objectively when marking a Hall of Fame ballot:

McGwire's debut on the ballot brings a host of torturous questions. Did his refusal to talk about the past on Capitol Hill constitute an admission of steroid use? Is it somehow nobler to throw a spitter than it is to juice? Should McGwire be rejected for doing something that so many others did, including pitchers who tried to contain him? How many other users will slip into Cooperstown simply because Congress left them alone?

These are difficult questions that require a great deal of thought, and answering them won't be easy. Oh, wait...

In this corner, the decision is easy. I can't honor a man for a past that he refused to discuss under oath.

Okay, some of you may find this maddening, but I just find it hysterical. Particularly the idea that this was an "easy" decision, as if a bizarre and arbitrary statement such as "I can't honor a man for a past that he refused to discuss under oath" is a time-honored method of player evaluation that has served sportswriters for generations. Ah, yes, I remember the last words Leonard Koppett ever said to me: "You've got to look at the whole package, Gwen. How did he perform in the field? How did he perform under pressure? Most importantly... how did he perform under oath?"

I'm still waiting for the column where Knapp blasts her colleagues Williams and Fainaru-Wada: "Many of my fellow journalists have praised these men for their thorough investigative work regarding the BALCO scandal, but I can't honor men for a past that they refused to discuss under oath..."

Steroids will keep Gwen Knapp from voting for a man who hit 583 home runs, including 70 in one season. I disagree, but it's her opinion, and it appears to be the majority opinion. This doesn't bother me, as long as she is consistent and doesn't do something insane like vote for an admitted steroid user who hit only 239 home runs in an uneven career that was followed by cocaine and alcohol abuse, prison, and a fatal drug-induced heart attack.

The late Ken Caminiti appears on the ballot for the first time this year, along with the record-breaking Bash Brothers, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco. Only one of the three made real history.

In 2002, six years after he was named the National League's MVP, Caminiti became the first prominent major-leaguer to admit that he had used steroids. He died two years later, at age 41, when a cocktail of drugs sent his already damaged heart into arrest. One of the last pictures of Caminiti showed him handcuffed and wearing an orange jumpsuit, preparing to check out of a Houston jail, where he spent 25 days for using cocaine and violating his probation in an earlier drug-possession case.

For me, none of that rules him out as a candidate.

I couldn't agree more, Gwen. I believe that steroids should not be a litmus test in an era of rampant drug usage. And anything that happened to Caminiti outside of baseball after his retirement is obviously irrelevant. I think you and I would agree that what matters is what he did as a player...

Nor do I care that he hit only .272 with 239 home runs in his career.

Hmmm. Of course not. Hall of Fame voting shouldn't be cluttered by insignificant little facts such as how a player performed on the baseball field.

Oh, and if you're scoring at home...

Caminiti admitting his steroid use: "real history"

Canseco admitting his steroid use: not "real history"

McGwire evading questions about steroids while testifying before Congress: not "real history"

Canseco achieving the first 40/40 season, hitting 462 home runs and winning two world titles, rookie of the year and an MVP award: not "real history"

McGwire's 70-home-run season... well, you get the picture.

I'll admit that I'm a little old school on this issue, as I still believe that there's a difference between "historical acts" and "acts that I find morally admirable." I learned this the hard way in junior high, when my "Why Stalin Was Not A Historical Figure" essay only got a C-.

Anyway, Gwen Knapp is going to vote for Ken Caminiti because of his honesty concerning his steroid use, which some believe was a turning point in how we view steroids. In a way, I guess you could say Caminiti changed the game...

But I'm not voting for Caminiti because he changed the game.

I'm trying to work with you here, Gwen. I really am. In a column full of reasons not to vote for Caminiti, you're going to have to give me at least one "I'm voting for Caminiti because..." sentence.

I'm voting for Caminiti because of who he was, a deeply flawed, widely beloved man.

I absolutely adore this sentence. The problem with McGwire is not the flaw in his personality that caused him to take steroids or the one that caused him to stonewall Congress. It's that these flaws didn't run deep enough. It's tough to find just the right combination on this year's ballot. Albert Belle? Deeply flawed, but not quite beloved enough. Now, Dale Murphy is beloved, but he just doesn't have any deep flaws that I know about. If only he were a pedophile or something.

So, the clearly underqualified Ken Caminiti will receive one Hall of Fame vote this year. (Well, two votes. It would appear that Knapp got this brilliant idea from Tom Verducci, whose reasoning is just as sound, I would guess, and is in no way influenced by the fact that he was the reporter who broke the story about Caminiti's steroid use in the first place.) It's not a big deal, and he probably won't be the worst candidate to receive votes this time around.

But what bothers me is that it's a vote that screams "THIS VOTE IS ABOUT ME! GWEN KNAPP! OVER HERE! LOOK AT ME!" This is nothing new, as evidenced by the fact that five percent of the voters didn't vote for Babe Ruth or Willie Mays when they were elected to the Hall of Fame. Any hack can humbly fill out a ballot based on rational analysis, but an arrogantly misguided ballot, now... that might generate some press coverage!

You write columns for a major metropolitan newspaper, Gwen, so you already have the kind of soapbox that every shrieking talk radio caller in this country dreams about. So use it as such. The column is about you, so keep giving us your unique perspective on the sports world. Give us a "Caminiti Good/McGwire Bad" column every week for a year if that's what burns inside of you.

Your Hall of Fame ballot, however, isn't about you. So try to take a step back and take it seriously.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Excellent post, Pants Man.

I would like to take this time to ask the question "Gwen Knapp gets a Hall of Fame vote?!?!?!?"

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 2:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

And while we're asking questions...
Gwen Knapp...
Great Sports Writer...
Or the Greatest Sports Writer?

by Snof on Dec 4, 2006 5:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Guess Strawberry's a lock. And that Rose fellow.
Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 4, 2006 3:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Come on Pants, how are sportswriters supposed to alert the world to what extraordinary, profound, insightful, and saintly people they are if not through misappropriation of honorarium ballots?

by Roger on Dec 4, 2006 5:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
ya, i've been thinking that you know there will be a couple of writers that don't vote for ripken or gwynn just to do some skip bayless-type devil's advocate-for-self-promotion thing.  

by keithr on Dec 4, 2006 7:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Skip Bayless: Ruining everything since whatever year he was hired to spew his asshattery.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Truer words never spoken! Your powers of observation continue to impress.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 8:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Being too cynical and sarcastic for my own good often fails me; for instance, I can't tell if you're sincere or just screwing with me.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Skip can't be all bad
I've missed all the Cold Pizza years, but while he was a columnist for the San Jose Mercury, Bayless was a staunch defender of Barry Lamar Bonds.

by Moggeee on Dec 4, 2006 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Skip can't be all bad
I think he still is.  That wasn't the point I believe Moggs. The point being he just plays devil's advocate to draw attention to himself. Another in the Ralf Barbieri brigade. Self-important blowhards.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And Ralphie hated Skippy. (Did he see himself?)
Skip and Ralph DO stick their foolhardy, blowhardy necks out, which makes for reaction.

But if Bayless continually backed Bonds just to be controversial, his arguments nonetheless have been adopted as part of the canon of this site.

by Moggeee on Dec 4, 2006 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Dear BVCE:

If I was being sarcastic, I would not have written it the way I did. Subtle, I usually am not. It would have been profanity laced, injected, and basted.

Sinfuckingcerely

E

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
You should write greeting cards.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 1:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I do. A small sampling:

Xmas

Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Santa is on his way
Oh what fun it is to get kidnapped by a fat bastard sneaking in the chimney

and

Here Comes Santa Claus, Here Comes Santa Claus
Right down Santa Claus Lane.
Here Comes Santa Claus, Here Comes Santa Claus
With a Butcher Knife and Battery Acid Just for you.

My Easter Collection is quite popular

Oh Rise on this Glorious Easter Morn
...smoke a fatty and
take a big dump like you always do.

Birthday Greeting

HEY ITS YOUR BIRTHDAY THERE BIG GUY.
Now go die

And if you order now, we'll waive our usual $19.95 purchase price and charge your Visa or Mastercard the nominal S&H charge of $19.95

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 6:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: Intellectual Dwarfette
Excellent Pants Man. There was a reason Kingman sent her a box with a dead rat. IMHO, a waste of a box and a perfectly good rat that could otherwise have been donated to 6th period biology class.

Knowing that Gwen Knapp has a HOF ballot continues to further denigrate the process of admissions. The BBWA or whatever demonstrate clearly that they are not up to the simple task of voting thumbs up or thumbs down.

Time for a new process.  

Having these fuckwidgets determine membership in the HOF seems as fairminded as asking skinheads to vote in the NAACP board of directors

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 8:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: Intellectual Dwarfette
Sue Fornoff got the rat, not Knapp. Kingman was a class A jackass for pulling that stunt. He did it because he hated Ms. Fornoff for being female, not because he disagreed with something she wrote. Let's celebrate blind hatred.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Well, my memory failed once again if you are correct. I could have sworn it was Gwen Knapp--it was a long time ago. In any event, you are correct about Kingkongkingman...he was and still is a jerk. A generally unpleasant piece of work regardless of gender, creed, sexual orientation or any-damn thing..he doesn't seem to like anybody..at least he didnt as of about 10 years ago.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 9:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Ms. Fornoff writes about the incident in detail in her book Lady in the Locker Room. It was a really long time ago. I was learning how to write when it happened--and I don't mean writing sports articles, I mean writing the alphabet.

Anywho, the book is an excellent read. Ms. Fornoff spent her time as an MLB beat writer with the A's in the late eighties but it's not just about that. It's about her work in college and why she loves sports and why she got into sportswriting, and it gives a short history of women in sportswriting. I found some resources I can use thanks to that book. Warning: may contain high concentrations of the X chromsome. Proceed with caution.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Other than Susan Slusser and Robin Roberts, the media women I cannot stand. Leslie Vissar? Andrea Kramer? Bonnie Berstein? Gwen Knapp? I don't remember
Fornoff at all. Probably because I wasn't much reading any sports stuff in the late 80s other than scorebooks.

As a matter of fact Susan Slusser is my favorite writer and Robin Roberts is my favorite tv commentator.

I must be missing some women as this is like an all or nothing list. Its Monday, and I'm not wanting to be in my office right now.  I want to be in warm weather where the grass is green and time stops.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I didn't read any of Ms. Fornoff's stuff as I was still a wee one when she quit beat writing. Heh.

I worship Lesley Visser. She's had opportunities I'd die for. First woman in the Monday Night Football booth, overall deep knowledge of sports, great presence; simply put, she rocks socks.

There are so few good women in the business and all the press goes to the Tits McGees. Gotta cling to the good ones.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Visser!... Right. Now I remember.  Good sense of self-deprecating humor. Even did a commercial where she takes a football off the bean where she's supposed to be doing sideline commentary.

I heard her interviewed on some sports talk radio show some years ago. She really knew her stuff and sounded like somebody well worth knowing as informative, entertaining, and totall intaking as opposed to off-putting like the bimbettes roaming the sidelines these days.  Now I know why I like Susan Slusser; she reminded me of her in a more low key way. I really do miss Robin Roberts on Sports Center. She kicked butt on baseball, but she was better known for hoops because I believe she played in college.

Problem is the networks relegate women to trying to imitate men, only in short skirts, rather than just being women interviewing men.  Something that Visser and Roberts are very good at.

   

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Slusser is very awesome. I saw her chat in the booth on an A's broadcast once. Not only is she a good writer but she is well spoken and she really does know her stuff.

I didn't really get it until I did my first few interviews with pro ballplayers, but I understand that this racket is just people talking to each other. Ask questions, make observations, write what you learned. No need to make it about gender or whatever. There's always some shit that'll come out of sending a pretty girl to talk to a pro athlete but in the ten or so minutes it takes to speak to one of these guys it's not about that. It's about doing your job.

End soapbox.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I've heard her on the KNBR morning show and dig her.  She's funny, engaging and smart.  She deserves a bigger role on the local scene.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
And just as engaging is Renel Brooks-Moon. Who totally rocks and is the only "homer" I have ever seen who actually pumps me up.  The Giants need to feature more of Renel. Take her off PA and put her in the booth with Kruk and Kuip. I don't need Bip Roberts on the sidelines. Gimmee more of the erudite, knowlegable, upbeat Renel.  The Giants are missing a huge opportunity by not featuring her more.

She's been doing radio broadcasting for over 20 years for goodness sake.  She would be awesome in the booth. TV or Radio or both.  The Giants have shoved everybody from Tim McCarver to FP Santangelo at us.  Why not let us have Renel, at least during home games on FOXBA.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 6:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
You know, E, every time I tell somebody that I really do like Renel a lot they give me funny looks and tell me that she sucks.

You're the first person I've encountered who shares this feeling with me (of the people who have voiced an opinion). I'm glad I'm not alone.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 4, 2006 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Another pro-Renel vote here
Great energy and great voice. Although the people who sit behind me and keep score in Section 314 complain that she doesn't announce who is batting where after double-switches very often.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 7:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another pro-Renel vote here
They're not studying their rosters very well then. They lose.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Renel is great. Anyone who doesn't think so clearly has no taste. :)
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2006 8:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Renel is da bomb.  I've met her in person as she's an aquaitence of family members.  She's very cool and really involved in the community.

I think she should stay right where she is; on PA.  The energy and "hipness" that she brings to the loudspeakers would be damn hear impossible to replace.  I doubt she'd want to give up her radio gig to go on the road with the broadcast team, anyway.  

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Gosh , BVCE , that's exactly how most a us dangly types feel about Tits....
          ...McGees!
Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"...in my office now..."
My OFFICE?

Blew THAT image right out of the motherf'in' water.
Thanks a lot , E...nothing you post will ever read the same.

Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 4, 2006 9:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now, there's something to look forward to
The office is a red herring, Vic. E said he wants to be where the weather is warm, the grass is green, and time stops.

That would be your neck of the woods, AZ Giant Fan.

Scottsdale. Spring Training. 2007.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
I would like to take this time to point out that it is currently 16 degrees Fahrenheit in Chicago (3 degrees wind chill), which is warmer than last night's delightful 10 degrees and 0 degree wind chill.

I miss San Francisco.  That is all.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 1:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There's more
I've got a higher standard for warmth.

I miss Honolulu.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 1:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: There's more
I've got an even higher standard for warmth.

I miss Hell. Strangest. Vacation. Ever. Nothing at the hotel was complimentary (including use of towels), but the Nine Circles Bus Tour was fantastic. And contrary to popular belief, the weather is great in July.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 1:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: There's more
I was disappointed, personally...the Dante guide made it sound a lot more glamorous than it really was.
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 5, 2006 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: There's more
Ah yeah, see this is why I don't consult the guides first, especially when I go to Hell. The reality as compared to what's advertized is always so damned ironic.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 5:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
10 degrees? Luxury! If course, I have it rough...

Try St. John's, Newfoundland, where there is currently 40cm of snow on the ground - a frozen white blanket of tundra that will remain in place until late May / early June. Native Newfoundlanders tolerate the eteral gray of winter wtih a certain humor. As a transplanted Californian, the next six months of weather are fairly soul crushing.

When do pitchers and catchers report? Hope springs eternal.

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Dec 5, 2006 9:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Set Your Baseball Watches, Canucks
In Newfoundlander Time, pitchers and catchers report when your sunrise to sunset encompasses 47 minutes of daylight.

It's a festive time under the Aurora Borealis, when you can reduce your underarmor protection from three sets of longjohns to two.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 11:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
As soul crushing as say.... a Feliz signing?

by zenbitz on Dec 5, 2006 4:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
Sad But True Dept:
Last Spring Training game I attended I wished Nen a good game.
He acknowledged.
I swooned.
Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 3:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Vic was promptly thrown out of the park
Vic. Tell the whole story. Nen was merely nodding to give a signal to the Secret Service Man standing behind you.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
OK , ok , I'll buy the damn shirt already.
Just stop lumping all my stupid asides together and blowing the context.
  What good is a snappy comeback if it shows up seven posts later?
Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now, there's something to look forward to
You and Moggee are both out of your everloving minds!  I can't keep up.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 5:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Pants, I'm curious to hear more about you thoughts on Stalin and the historical/moral figure dichotomy.

by lunaticfridge on Dec 4, 2006 9:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Great post.  As far as not voting for McGwire, we can't really single her out.  For what it's worth, on ESPN's "Sports Reporters", all three (Bob Ryan, Mike Lupica, Steven A Smith) agreed that McGwire doesn't deserve a vote.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 9:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Otherwise known as the Brothers Horwitz: Moses, Samuel and Jerome. Better known as Moe,Shemp and Curly. And to be taken as seriously. These guys are ESPNs answer to Michael Savage.  Amplitude over Aptitude. Quantity over Quality. Style over Substance.  And so forth. Working the Madison Avenue addage to repeat something 7 times for it sink into the viewers thought process.  
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 9:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I find Steven A. Smith to be the most irritating, abrasive man in the world.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 4, 2006 12:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Knapp should be stripped of her HOF ballot voting ability (I won't say "right") because she doesn't take it very seriously as is evidenced by her wasting it to make a some vague non-sensical political statement by voting for a guy who clearly belongs nowhere near the HOF based on his baseball numbers, which is what counts.

It isn' the Honest Guy Hall of Fame. it's the Baseball Hall of Fame. What a moron.

Alex Sanchez admitted he took steroids. Clearly, Hall of Fame Material.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 4, 2006 10:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
From the HOF's site: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/rules.htm

On how one becomes a voter: 2. Electors -- Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.

On criteria they're supposed to use when voting: 5. Voting -- Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2006 11:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I was not aware that Gwen Knapp had been a baseball writer for 10 years.  I remember that she has been with the Chron for some time, but I seem to remember her writing more about the 49ers at first, and I have now been in Chicago for almost four years.  Time flies, I guess.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Incidentally, this is why I think Omar has a good chance of getting into the Hall, a topic that has come up a few times around here. He may well make it on his on-the-field merits alone (I think he should), but even more than that, voters like Knapp may twist themselves into all sorts of odd logics as "steroid era" players come up for consideration that will benefit guys like Vizquel.

Maybe. Of course if Knapp's column is to be taken seriously then Omar would best increase his chances by taking steroids and then confessing to Congress on CSPAN.

by non sequitur on Dec 4, 2006 11:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

More, from Bob Ryan...
"Well, Mark, if you can't bring yourself to talk about your past, I don't see any reason why we should waste time evaluating it."

I think you're a little confused, Bob. We waste time evaluating the past of baseball superstars. We waste a lot of it. I was up until 3:00 AM composing this nonsense last night. You get to vote on who is elected to the Hall of Fame. There's a big difference.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/11/28/a_no_vote_for_mcgwire/

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 1:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: More, from Bob Ryan...
Dear Bob Ryan:

You're full of shit because you are a sanctimonious cunt. You are one more reason that newspaper circulation continues to decline. You are one more reason that HOF admission voting should be removed from self-serving cocksuckers like yourself and turned over to the players and MLB itself.

Go Fuck Yourself East Coast Shitbird

E

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
I was Christmas Caroling with the Kiwanis in E's neighborhood, when we came upon his house and saw the above post nailed to his front door, signed in blood.

We all tiptoed away in doubletime.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
Hah!  And all along I thought it was Lucca Brazzi
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 5, 2006 7:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: More, from Bob Ryan...
An office.

-sigh-

clickBOOM....thud

Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 5, 2006 4:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post, Pants Man
One nitpick: Don't blame the 5% who didn't vote for Babe Ruth. He went in on the inaugaural ballot, when they were voting from amongst all 20th century players. That's a very different situation to all subsequent votes. It was such a tough class, Cy Young didn't get in!
Visit my blog and die happy.

by Salemicus on Dec 4, 2006 2:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Excellent post, Pants Man
Plus, there was definitely a sentiment that Babe Ruth was a product of that newfangled home run craze, and that he didn't "play the game the right way" like Ty Cobb or Honus Wagner or Racist Cap Anson.

Silly sportswriters.  I can just see the 1938 version of Bruce Jenkins telling us how Jesse Burkett was better than Babe Ruth.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 6:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Bleh. Gold Gloves and MVP/Cy Youngs are already all but meaningless (the former entirely meaningless) thanks to sportswriter stupidity. I don't want to see the Hall follow.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 2:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
Coaches and managers vote on Gold Gloves.

by kintetsu on Dec 5, 2006 7:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
I would just like to point out that I, too, am deeply flawed and widely beloved (at least by my immediate family). One of my deeper flaws, from the Hall of Fame perspective, would have to be the fact that I have never played baseball at any competitive level. However, since Knapp doesn't seem to care about actual baseball achievement, I look forward to receiving her support on this year's ballot.

Seriously, though. It would truly be a disgrace if Caminiti got more votes than Will Clark did last year, since the only areas in which Caminiti exceeds Clark are the squalor of his life and the tragedy of his early death.

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 3:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Gwen Knapp: deeply flawed, widely misguided
He also has several more letters in his last name.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the "i"s have it!
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 4, 2006 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: the "i"s have it!
You don't have enough money to buy any more vowells--nevertheless, Vanna still loves the pants, man.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 4, 2006 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 4:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
That is ridiculous. Even Gwenn Knapp wouldn't be stupid enough to elect Ken Camnt.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 4, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ken Camnt for Hall of Fame
But he hit 239 hm rns and 983 RBs! And he was a 3-time ll-str!
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2006 5:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Clark whups on Caminiti again
Will's folks came through Ellis Island, where they trimmed down the family name so their kid could make it through the baseball ranks with minimum prejudice.

Originally, it was Clarkiniski.

by Moggeee on Dec 5, 2006 12:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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