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So much for the slow news days....

Seven years. Insane. While a list of comparable pitchers from Baseballs Reference and Prospectus isn't perfect, you have to be worried that there aren't too many pitchers on the lists who were still effective at 35. Or 34. Or, you know, 33, 32, and 31. That isn't going to be some quirk particular to just Zito's comps; that's going to be true of any pitcher. Seven years to any pitcher - Johan Santana, right now, for example - is insane.

I mean, that's Antwan Jamison money. Insane.

It's hard not to be cynical. This was done for the fan who calls KNBR and wants the Giants to trade draft picks for Miguel Cabrera. This was done to ward off criticism.

When I think about this contract, though, the bile doesn't rise to the back of my throat because of 2007. They could have paid him $300M this season for all I cared. The Giants were done for the offseason. That's where the It's Not My Money theory comes into play. Heck, that's great news for 2007. Jamey Wright, he's not.

But It's Not My Money can only go so far. If Zito is stinking up the joint or injured in 2012 and taking up 15% of the payroll, that's everybody's problem. And that's what a century of baseball history is telling us is going to happen. There's probably a one-in-ten chance that Zito enjoys the sustained success that Tom Glavine did through his 30s.

I should have had one of these posts in the can like some ghoulish obituary writer because my head is swimming with a million different impulses. For the long-term, I hate the move. For the short-term, I love it. I'm glad it isn't Carlos Lee. Really, really, really glad. Man, this is insane.

Insane. Seven years. Insane.

Hooray. Booo. Good-not-great is the new great. I'll love this deal until I hate it.

Irrational reason for optimism comment starter: I was convinced the Edgardo Alfonzo deal was perfect, and I thought the Omar Vizquel deal was going to be a disaster. Kevin Brown and Mike Hampton were eventually traded. Hey, are those straws? Lemme just grasp at those for a while.

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Re: So much for the slow news days....
But he's soooooooooooooooooo cute!

J/K. Still, it's exciting, if nothing else. Grant, I assure you, the deal was done to make the Giants better, KNBR listeners notwithstanding. You may well be right about the outcome, but at least now we have a chance to find out.

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 10:22 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
So I'm trading emails with a friend who is somewhat of a bball fan , and at the end of one she says;
"Oh , yeah...Zito????? Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!"

I FLEW here...

The contract years ARE nuts. Even I know this.
But this ain't "Brewster's Millions"...Brian's heart's in the right place.

Let's f'ing GO GIANTS!

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

2007 Giants Slogan:
"We'll be BARRY, BARRY good!" (text overlayed on picture of two barcaloungers in Giants clubhouse)

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 10:25 AM PST   0 recs

Re: 2007 Giants Slogan:
Yeah, too bad Garrett Morris is dead.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 1:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Actually
Hmm... I must have thought he died when he took that bullet in that 1994 robbery.

All right, hire him as Chico Esquela for the campaign!

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 4:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
...at least they didn't overpay.   GULP!
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 28, 2006 10:26 AM PST   0 recs

So much for the slow news days....
It's hard not to be cynical, yes.  We're a pretty baseball-knowledgeable lot and cynical to boot.  BUT, BUT, it's also hard not to be excited by this!  I mean dude's young and has been healthy and he chose us.  Screw my thoughts on $ and years right now, I applaud Sabean for getting the top like FA pitcher of the last couple of years; I applaud Sabean for actually looking forward rather than missing the boat like he's done on hitters 1-20 over the last couple of years.    

by Kent on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I'd still rather have seven years of Ztio than seven years of Carlos Lee. So fellow Giants fans, be glad we dodged that bullet.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
The seven years don't bother me in the least. Why?  Mike Hampton. Kevin Brown. If the years and the performance don't match up in his 34th year, I have no doubt that the Giants will be able to pawn him off to someone.  The way things are going, his contract might look like a bargain in three years. And with the great influx of cash the Giats have gotten along with every other team, they can actually afford to insure this contract.
non illigitimi carborundum, excessum Sabeanus.

by Moderation on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Hampton was actually a bargain from 2003-05 - for Atlanta, anyway, who got decent pitching for $2M per year. Not such a good deal for Florida, who were paying $8M, or Colorado, who were still on the hook for $2M per year. And, according to Cot's, it's the Rockies that will have to pay the $6M buyout of his 2009 option.

The point being that if the contract turn out to be Hampton-bad, the Giants may end up eating a big chunk of it as part of unloading him. Such is the way of bad contracts.

I don't expect it will turn out Hampton-bad, but it is always a possibility.

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 11:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I'm going to wait for 2010 to be pissed about this deal.  For now I am pumped.  Go Dingle Berries!
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I love that attitude. Hopefully, by 2010, we're all millionaires and both Barries (sp?) are simply ordinary folks.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 10:34 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I think that a consensus has been formed that we will use the plural "Berries"
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 10:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

*hands the paper bag covered bottle over to you*
This is your friend.
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST   0 recs

Seriously though..
I don't think this is all that bad of a contract for the money, just the years are terrible.  He may be worth ~$18 million a year for a few years, but sometime there has to be a dropoff.  I will be dreading this in 4 years.

I just looked at his salary information over his career..his estimated total salary is $18,035,000.  He'll double that in a year with us.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 10:36 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
well.

so much for us not negotiating with scott boras.

2002? I'm over it.

by wjackalope on Dec 28, 2006 10:37 AM PST   0 recs

Payroll
What is our payroll up to now?  Where does this leave us for next year without Barry (Bonds) contract?
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Everybody, just relax.  At least we know who one of Angel Villalona's teammates will be in 2013, that is if the rumor of an option year is true!  I try not to worry about other people's money and length of contract, because, hey, it really isn't my money.  But, in terms of this team and what it needed to be seriously competitive next year, I like it.  In terms of being excited about next year, I like it.  In terms of making a bold move that hasn't been seen in these parts for some time, I like it.  I will worry about the contract when it prevents the team from being competitive, which won't be immediately.  

by out machine on Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
For all my fence-sitting bordering on negativity I can take a positive here. Bruce Bochy's press conference was held on my last day at my crappy job, where I went out to lunch with a few cool co-workers and got to see it on ESPNews (bless you Applebee's). If Zito is introduced tomorrow it'll be on ESPNews, and lo, I'll be able to see it because I have the day off thanks to my awesome new job. I planned Dec 29 to be my last day at the crappy job but I got a good offer much earlier than that. Last day at crappy job, here comes Bochy. Zito's day is the supposed last day at my old crappy job. I look for patterns and obsess over dates so forgive me for looking like a nerd.

Moral of the story, my old job sucked and my new job does not suck. I hope Zito refrains from sucking too.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 10:40 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Does your new job pay anything close to $18 million a year?

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

No, but
I got on base a lot and had a good throwing arm when I played softball 12 years ago. That skillset should get me a decent payday in this market, you think?
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 10:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Do you throw lefty?
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Do you throw lefty?
Left-handed throwing catchers are pretty rare.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 11:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

CONGRATS on the better gig, Baron!!
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Dec 28, 2006 3:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
To enhance what I'm trying to get across in the other threads:

Nobody knows what's going to happen five years from now. To commit that kind of money to Zito that far in the future is crazy.

However, let's treat this like that time we were 20 years old and just stepping out into the world: Ride it, baby! We don't know when we might crash into a drudge-a-licious 9-5 or 7-6 or 5-10 job, so go out to bars and make passes at complete strangers! Drive your Chevy to the levy! Make a banner that says "Zitonians Live Here!" Eat nothing but sushi and Alize for three straight days!

I know the analogy is strained, but I just feel there's plenty of upside to this deal for us fans.

by David Arnott on Dec 28, 2006 10:44 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Holy crap.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 28, 2006 10:46 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Keep in mind though, he's still getting $18 million per year.  On the $90 million Bonds contract that was up after 06, Bonds was getting $20 million yearly.  So on a year to year basis, it's not as big a commitment.

by Chulk on Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
and the payroll was smaller as well

by someguynamedg on Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
At least all that talk about an $85m payroll went down the drain, and Sabean is at least trying to win with Bonds.

We all know about the bad.  How about the good?

  • Zito is going to the NL from the AL, so it's a good bet that his ERA will drop by a good .4 or so.
  • He will never give up a HR to a LHH in AT&T
  • He is only 28, so we are looking at his true talent level and probably not a decline (yet)
  • He gets to pitch to pitchers, which will help his K rate and BB rate
  • He is going to a league where the hitters don't know him, which should help out of the gate
  • He eats a lot of innings, and well
  • It takes pressure off of the young pitching
  • It pushes everyone back a spot, so the worst pitcher on the team is now a better pitcher than before, especially in the rotation
  • No Bruce Chen, Russ Ortiz, Damien Moss, et al in the rotation

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 10:58 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oh, and he's a cool guy who plays guitar, likes good music, lives in San Francisco already, and wants to play here!

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 10:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
definitely the clinchers, right there :)
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

thank you for that
I knew there was some reason part of me wanted that guy
2002? I'm over it.

by wjackalope on Dec 28, 2006 11:05 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oh , f*ck yes.
That Ortiz nonsense was making me sick.
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
please don't let this make dirty sanchez expendible.
Glenallen hill hates spiders

by fugazism on Dec 28, 2006 11:02 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
If you want to compare me to the afore -mentioned, mythical KNBR listener, fair enough. But my gut reaction to this move is thus: If the Giants win the World Series in 2007, and after that, Zito becomes a worthless pitcher with awful numbers for the rest of his contract, I will still say it was worth it.

by Blake on Dec 28, 2006 11:03 AM PST   0 recs

Clearly worth it.
But will they go to the series with these guys?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:10 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Clearly worth it.
"Will the Giants make it with these guys?"

Probably not. I'm getting awfully pessimistic in my old age...

by Blake on Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Clearly worth it.
# of teams that will "probably" make it to the WS = zero.

C'mon. This doesn't make sense until the season is underway. Who would've picked the Tigers?

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 11:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Who?
Grant.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/3/20/163724/507

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 3:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Who?
Damn the man is GOOD!
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 3:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Absolutely true. Even though I threw up in my mouth a little when I read about this contract, it does increase the odds of the Giants winning the Series. (If the Cardinals could win the Series, then yes, these Giants could win it.) If the Giants won the title and thereafter the contract killed the team for six years, hey, whatever. Bill Simmons had a column a few years back, after the Pats won their first Super Bowl, espousing the theory that when your team wins a championship they automatically earn a five-year grace period during which their fans are not allowed to criticize them. So if we win the Series in 2007, we won't be allowed to criticize the Zito contract until 2013, when he will still be on the team.

by taliesin on Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
In a related note, Bill Simmons now bitches about the Red Sox and Patriots constantly. That's a tough rule to follow, but, dammit... I hope I get a chance to try.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 1:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

On The Five - Year Grace Period...Thing...
Yeah , the D-Blanks' fans are only just now finding their BOOOs.
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

What about this?
What if Barry wins a Cy young this year with a 3.00 ERA and 20 wins? How much would that be worth? More than $18 million? It seems everybody is already worried about four years from now, but he could our preform his contrasct over the next three years and that would alter the weight of his remaining contract. Much like Bonds, who probably out-performed his contract in 2001 so his contract in 2005 was more or less payment for what you did and not what you will do.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:06 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
how big is Cains smile right now???

by sf11 on Dec 28, 2006 11:09 AM PST   0 recs

What do you mean by that?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
I believe he thinks that Cain is going to be one rich dude. Of course, he isn't arbitration eligible for another two seasons. By then, baseball will go through a market correction and the Giants will be trying desperately to trade Zito.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
if he is as good as I think he will be and if/when Cain goes on the FA market (hopefully that won't be allowed to happen), then he'll get one of the biggest contracts in the game's history.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
He needs six full season of major league service time. Most likely, the Giants will sign him to a lucrative long-term contract before the end of the 2008 season -- right before he is eligible to file for arbitration. For a power pitcher, that probably means 4 years plus an option year. That will take Cain off the market until 2012, possibly 2013. I'll put a grand down on even money that there will definitely be a market correction before then.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:44 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
Yeah, that's kinda how I read it too...

by tk on Dec 28, 2006 12:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
I thought Matt Cain had a special connection with the Sween-dog.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 12:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
the question regarding Cain is, does having Zito at that amount keep him from being the opening day starter? it may be a minor thing, but in a 1-3 seasons, Cain will be THE MAN, a dominant pitcher and an annual all-star. That may be saying a lot, but the guy is nearly there already and he has all of the physical and mental tools.

With Cain and Lincecum on the way, in 3-4 years, Zito could be our 3rd best pitcher, which may not be a bad thing.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 12:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
In the ESPN article, Sweeney discusses Zito v. Cain in a way that makes sense to me...

"It takes a lot of pressure off two people, which I think is very important," Giants first baseman and outfielder Mark Sweeney said. "Matt Cain is one of them. Taking Jason Schmidt's spot is asking a lot. I think that would be pushing it a little bit, even though he's going to be our No. 1 for years and I think the world of him. And also Matt Morris, who is going to bounce back. He put a lot on his shoulders.

"I think it does a lot of that. It adds to the flexibility of our staff, too. Having Noah Lowry third or fourth is pretty good."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710389

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
How exactly does one outperform an 18 million dollar contract?  Seems as though only the Unit makes more money among starters.  Seems like the only way to "earn" more than 18 million is to go '78 Guidry on the NL.

by Stoned Slacker on Dec 28, 2006 11:12 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
My comment was subjective. What about, how much would you pay for 20 wins and a sub 3.00 ERA? Would you pay $20 million? If performance were guaranteed I think you definitely would pay that amount. That's what I was trying to say. It's easier for Cain to outperform his contract as it is for all non-arbitration players, just as it is almost impossible for first-tier FA's to live up to or outperform their contracts.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
0.74 ERA.  35-0 in 36 starts.  (We'll let Mando blow one.)

Nothing less.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Why must you pollute this thread by bringing that talentless hack of a pitcher into it?  Here I was, slipping off into my own little slice of 18/7 year heaven, and you gotta do me like that?!?
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Unfortunately,
our offense still sucks. Zito will need to pitch great to win a lot of 3-2, 2-1 and 1-0 games.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:20 AM PST   0 recs

Re: Unfortunately,
Ummmm HELLO?! Zito is in the NL now!  He'll just fix the problem by batting .280 with 30 RBI's this season.  Duh...

-D

by dw4848 on Dec 28, 2006 11:56 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
well that and hope the pen doesnt give it up....

by someguynamedg on Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
As I pointed out in another diary, for $126M the Giants could have had Matsuzaka plus an extra $10M to spend.

On the plus side, Zito automatically becomes our best guitar player on the team. Also, did you know that his uncle is THE Patrick Duffy? Bobby Ewing in the house!

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
So we have Omar on Drums and Zito on Guitar, and Richie's wife is a singer, so all we need is a bass player and we're set.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I lobbied Sabes for Ben Broussard, but he said the best he could do was Pierzynski. Have I ever mentioned that I hate AJ Pierzynski?

by Barry Zito on Dec 28, 2006 11:34 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
There's a lot of spam on that page now.
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Dec 28, 2006 1:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
No kidding....Is there a way to ban that person?  
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
If the spammer posts a link to porn involving Armando Benitez and Pat Burrell, then yes.
All Your Barrys Are Belong to Us

by Fog City Blues on Dec 28, 2006 2:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Bonds can dress up like Paula Abdul and sing.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
"Straight Up" for irony's sake. And Ishikawa can be a backup dancer in his black man panties again.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 11:51 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Umm...should I read that as "black man-panties" or "black-man panties"?
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 12:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Man-panties, aka banana hammock. Although his wasn't really a Speedo, it was rather brief nonetheless.

Underwear puns. Ha.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 12:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
You're just soooooooooo content today aren't you Baron.  All this talk about banana hammocks, and another "dreamy" pitcher joins the team.  Coincidence?....I think not!
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Lemme tell ya, crushes on Zito are so 2002.
SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 2:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Bochy: "Hey Frandsy, can you play bass?"

Frandsen: "Oh sure, I played some in the minors..."

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 12:00 PM PST