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So much for the slow news days....

Seven years. Insane. While a list of comparable pitchers from Baseballs Reference and Prospectus isn't perfect, you have to be worried that there aren't too many pitchers on the lists who were still effective at 35. Or 34. Or, you know, 33, 32, and 31. That isn't going to be some quirk particular to just Zito's comps; that's going to be true of any pitcher. Seven years to any pitcher - Johan Santana, right now, for example - is insane.

I mean, that's Antwan Jamison money. Insane.

It's hard not to be cynical. This was done for the fan who calls KNBR and wants the Giants to trade draft picks for Miguel Cabrera. This was done to ward off criticism.

When I think about this contract, though, the bile doesn't rise to the back of my throat because of 2007. They could have paid him $300M this season for all I cared. The Giants were done for the offseason. That's where the It's Not My Money theory comes into play. Heck, that's great news for 2007. Jamey Wright, he's not.

But It's Not My Money can only go so far. If Zito is stinking up the joint or injured in 2012 and taking up 15% of the payroll, that's everybody's problem. And that's what a century of baseball history is telling us is going to happen. There's probably a one-in-ten chance that Zito enjoys the sustained success that Tom Glavine did through his 30s.

I should have had one of these posts in the can like some ghoulish obituary writer because my head is swimming with a million different impulses. For the long-term, I hate the move. For the short-term, I love it. I'm glad it isn't Carlos Lee. Really, really, really glad. Man, this is insane.

Insane. Seven years. Insane.

Hooray. Booo. Good-not-great is the new great. I'll love this deal until I hate it.

Irrational reason for optimism comment starter: I was convinced the Edgardo Alfonzo deal was perfect, and I thought the Omar Vizquel deal was going to be a disaster. Kevin Brown and Mike Hampton were eventually traded. Hey, are those straws? Lemme just grasp at those for a while.

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Re: So much for the slow news days....
But he's soooooooooooooooooo cute!

J/K. Still, it's exciting, if nothing else. Grant, I assure you, the deal was done to make the Giants better, KNBR listeners notwithstanding. You may well be right about the outcome, but at least now we have a chance to find out.

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 10:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
So I'm trading emails with a friend who is somewhat of a bball fan , and at the end of one she says;
"Oh , yeah...Zito????? Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!"

I FLEW here...

The contract years ARE nuts. Even I know this.
But this ain't "Brewster's Millions"...Brian's heart's in the right place.

Let's f'ing GO GIANTS!

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2007 Giants Slogan:
"We'll be BARRY, BARRY good!" (text overlayed on picture of two barcaloungers in Giants clubhouse)

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 10:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 2007 Giants Slogan:
Yeah, too bad Garrett Morris is dead.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Actually
Hmm... I must have thought he died when he took that bullet in that 1994 robbery.

All right, hire him as Chico Esquela for the campaign!

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 4:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
...at least they didn't overpay.   GULP!
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 28, 2006 10:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

So much for the slow news days....
It's hard not to be cynical, yes.  We're a pretty baseball-knowledgeable lot and cynical to boot.  BUT, BUT, it's also hard not to be excited by this!  I mean dude's young and has been healthy and he chose us.  Screw my thoughts on $ and years right now, I applaud Sabean for getting the top like FA pitcher of the last couple of years; I applaud Sabean for actually looking forward rather than missing the boat like he's done on hitters 1-20 over the last couple of years.    

by Kent on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I'd still rather have seven years of Ztio than seven years of Carlos Lee. So fellow Giants fans, be glad we dodged that bullet.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
The seven years don't bother me in the least. Why?  Mike Hampton. Kevin Brown. If the years and the performance don't match up in his 34th year, I have no doubt that the Giants will be able to pawn him off to someone.  The way things are going, his contract might look like a bargain in three years. And with the great influx of cash the Giats have gotten along with every other team, they can actually afford to insure this contract.
non illigitimi carborundum, excessum Sabeanus.

by Moderation on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Hampton was actually a bargain from 2003-05 - for Atlanta, anyway, who got decent pitching for $2M per year. Not such a good deal for Florida, who were paying $8M, or Colorado, who were still on the hook for $2M per year. And, according to Cot's, it's the Rockies that will have to pay the $6M buyout of his 2009 option.

The point being that if the contract turn out to be Hampton-bad, the Giants may end up eating a big chunk of it as part of unloading him. Such is the way of bad contracts.

I don't expect it will turn out Hampton-bad, but it is always a possibility.

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I'm going to wait for 2010 to be pissed about this deal.  For now I am pumped.  Go Dingle Berries!
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I love that attitude. Hopefully, by 2010, we're all millionaires and both Barries (sp?) are simply ordinary folks.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 10:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I think that a consensus has been formed that we will use the plural "Berries"
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*hands the paper bag covered bottle over to you*
This is your friend.
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Seriously though..
I don't think this is all that bad of a contract for the money, just the years are terrible.  He may be worth ~$18 million a year for a few years, but sometime there has to be a dropoff.  I will be dreading this in 4 years.

I just looked at his salary information over his career..his estimated total salary is $18,035,000.  He'll double that in a year with us.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 10:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
well.

so much for us not negotiating with scott boras.

2002? I'm over it.

by wjackalope on Dec 28, 2006 10:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Payroll
What is our payroll up to now?  Where does this leave us for next year without Barry (Bonds) contract?
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Everybody, just relax.  At least we know who one of Angel Villalona's teammates will be in 2013, that is if the rumor of an option year is true!  I try not to worry about other people's money and length of contract, because, hey, it really isn't my money.  But, in terms of this team and what it needed to be seriously competitive next year, I like it.  In terms of being excited about next year, I like it.  In terms of making a bold move that hasn't been seen in these parts for some time, I like it.  I will worry about the contract when it prevents the team from being competitive, which won't be immediately.  

by out machine on Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
For all my fence-sitting bordering on negativity I can take a positive here. Bruce Bochy's press conference was held on my last day at my crappy job, where I went out to lunch with a few cool co-workers and got to see it on ESPNews (bless you Applebee's). If Zito is introduced tomorrow it'll be on ESPNews, and lo, I'll be able to see it because I have the day off thanks to my awesome new job. I planned Dec 29 to be my last day at the crappy job but I got a good offer much earlier than that. Last day at crappy job, here comes Bochy. Zito's day is the supposed last day at my old crappy job. I look for patterns and obsess over dates so forgive me for looking like a nerd.

Moral of the story, my old job sucked and my new job does not suck. I hope Zito refrains from sucking too.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 10:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Does your new job pay anything close to $18 million a year?

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, but
I got on base a lot and had a good throwing arm when I played softball 12 years ago. That skillset should get me a decent payday in this market, you think?
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 10:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you throw lefty?
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Do you throw lefty?
Left-handed throwing catchers are pretty rare.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

CONGRATS on the better gig, Baron!!
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Dec 28, 2006 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
To enhance what I'm trying to get across in the other threads:

Nobody knows what's going to happen five years from now. To commit that kind of money to Zito that far in the future is crazy.

However, let's treat this like that time we were 20 years old and just stepping out into the world: Ride it, baby! We don't know when we might crash into a drudge-a-licious 9-5 or 7-6 or 5-10 job, so go out to bars and make passes at complete strangers! Drive your Chevy to the levy! Make a banner that says "Zitonians Live Here!" Eat nothing but sushi and Alize for three straight days!

I know the analogy is strained, but I just feel there's plenty of upside to this deal for us fans.

by David Arnott on Dec 28, 2006 10:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Keep in mind though, he's still getting $18 million per year.  On the $90 million Bonds contract that was up after 06, Bonds was getting $20 million yearly.  So on a year to year basis, it's not as big a commitment.

by Chulk on Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
and the payroll was smaller as well

by someguynamedg on Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
At least all that talk about an $85m payroll went down the drain, and Sabean is at least trying to win with Bonds.

We all know about the bad.  How about the good?

  • Zito is going to the NL from the AL, so it's a good bet that his ERA will drop by a good .4 or so.
  • He will never give up a HR to a LHH in AT&T
  • He is only 28, so we are looking at his true talent level and probably not a decline (yet)
  • He gets to pitch to pitchers, which will help his K rate and BB rate
  • He is going to a league where the hitters don't know him, which should help out of the gate
  • He eats a lot of innings, and well
  • It takes pressure off of the young pitching
  • It pushes everyone back a spot, so the worst pitcher on the team is now a better pitcher than before, especially in the rotation
  • No Bruce Chen, Russ Ortiz, Damien Moss, et al in the rotation

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 10:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oh, and he's a cool guy who plays guitar, likes good music, lives in San Francisco already, and wants to play here!

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 10:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
definitely the clinchers, right there :)
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thank you for that
I knew there was some reason part of me wanted that guy
2002? I'm over it.

by wjackalope on Dec 28, 2006 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oh , f*ck yes.
That Ortiz nonsense was making me sick.
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
please don't let this make dirty sanchez expendible.
Glenallen hill hates spiders

by fugazism on Dec 28, 2006 11:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
If you want to compare me to the afore -mentioned, mythical KNBR listener, fair enough. But my gut reaction to this move is thus: If the Giants win the World Series in 2007, and after that, Zito becomes a worthless pitcher with awful numbers for the rest of his contract, I will still say it was worth it.

by Blake on Dec 28, 2006 11:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Clearly worth it.
But will they go to the series with these guys?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Clearly worth it.
"Will the Giants make it with these guys?"

Probably not. I'm getting awfully pessimistic in my old age...

by Blake on Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Clearly worth it.
# of teams that will "probably" make it to the WS = zero.

C'mon. This doesn't make sense until the season is underway. Who would've picked the Tigers?

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 11:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who?
Grant.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/3/20/163724/507

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Who?
Damn the man is GOOD!
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Absolutely true. Even though I threw up in my mouth a little when I read about this contract, it does increase the odds of the Giants winning the Series. (If the Cardinals could win the Series, then yes, these Giants could win it.) If the Giants won the title and thereafter the contract killed the team for six years, hey, whatever. Bill Simmons had a column a few years back, after the Pats won their first Super Bowl, espousing the theory that when your team wins a championship they automatically earn a five-year grace period during which their fans are not allowed to criticize them. So if we win the Series in 2007, we won't be allowed to criticize the Zito contract until 2013, when he will still be on the team.

by taliesin on Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
In a related note, Bill Simmons now bitches about the Red Sox and Patriots constantly. That's a tough rule to follow, but, dammit... I hope I get a chance to try.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 1:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On The Five - Year Grace Period...Thing...
Yeah , the D-Blanks' fans are only just now finding their BOOOs.
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 7:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about this?
What if Barry wins a Cy young this year with a 3.00 ERA and 20 wins? How much would that be worth? More than $18 million? It seems everybody is already worried about four years from now, but he could our preform his contrasct over the next three years and that would alter the weight of his remaining contract. Much like Bonds, who probably out-performed his contract in 2001 so his contract in 2005 was more or less payment for what you did and not what you will do.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
how big is Cains smile right now???

by sf11 on Dec 28, 2006 11:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

What do you mean by that?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
I believe he thinks that Cain is going to be one rich dude. Of course, he isn't arbitration eligible for another two seasons. By then, baseball will go through a market correction and the Giants will be trying desperately to trade Zito.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
if he is as good as I think he will be and if/when Cain goes on the FA market (hopefully that won't be allowed to happen), then he'll get one of the biggest contracts in the game's history.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
He needs six full season of major league service time. Most likely, the Giants will sign him to a lucrative long-term contract before the end of the 2008 season -- right before he is eligible to file for arbitration. For a power pitcher, that probably means 4 years plus an option year. That will take Cain off the market until 2012, possibly 2013. I'll put a grand down on even money that there will definitely be a market correction before then.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
Yeah, that's kinda how I read it too...

by tk on Dec 28, 2006 12:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What do you mean by that?
I thought Matt Cain had a special connection with the Sween-dog.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
the question regarding Cain is, does having Zito at that amount keep him from being the opening day starter? it may be a minor thing, but in a 1-3 seasons, Cain will be THE MAN, a dominant pitcher and an annual all-star. That may be saying a lot, but the guy is nearly there already and he has all of the physical and mental tools.

With Cain and Lincecum on the way, in 3-4 years, Zito could be our 3rd best pitcher, which may not be a bad thing.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
In the ESPN article, Sweeney discusses Zito v. Cain in a way that makes sense to me...

"It takes a lot of pressure off two people, which I think is very important," Giants first baseman and outfielder Mark Sweeney said. "Matt Cain is one of them. Taking Jason Schmidt's spot is asking a lot. I think that would be pushing it a little bit, even though he's going to be our No. 1 for years and I think the world of him. And also Matt Morris, who is going to bounce back. He put a lot on his shoulders.

"I think it does a lot of that. It adds to the flexibility of our staff, too. Having Noah Lowry third or fourth is pretty good."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710389

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
How exactly does one outperform an 18 million dollar contract?  Seems as though only the Unit makes more money among starters.  Seems like the only way to "earn" more than 18 million is to go '78 Guidry on the NL.

by Stoned Slacker on Dec 28, 2006 11:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
My comment was subjective. What about, how much would you pay for 20 wins and a sub 3.00 ERA? Would you pay $20 million? If performance were guaranteed I think you definitely would pay that amount. That's what I was trying to say. It's easier for Cain to outperform his contract as it is for all non-arbitration players, just as it is almost impossible for first-tier FA's to live up to or outperform their contracts.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
0.74 ERA.  35-0 in 36 starts.  (We'll let Mando blow one.)

Nothing less.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Why must you pollute this thread by bringing that talentless hack of a pitcher into it?  Here I was, slipping off into my own little slice of 18/7 year heaven, and you gotta do me like that?!?
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately,
our offense still sucks. Zito will need to pitch great to win a lot of 3-2, 2-1 and 1-0 games.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:20 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unfortunately,
Ummmm HELLO?! Zito is in the NL now!  He'll just fix the problem by batting .280 with 30 RBI's this season.  Duh...

-D

by dw4848 on Dec 28, 2006 11:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
well that and hope the pen doesnt give it up....

by someguynamedg on Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
As I pointed out in another diary, for $126M the Giants could have had Matsuzaka plus an extra $10M to spend.

On the plus side, Zito automatically becomes our best guitar player on the team. Also, did you know that his uncle is THE Patrick Duffy? Bobby Ewing in the house!

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
So we have Omar on Drums and Zito on Guitar, and Richie's wife is a singer, so all we need is a bass player and we're set.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I lobbied Sabes for Ben Broussard, but he said the best he could do was Pierzynski. Have I ever mentioned that I hate AJ Pierzynski?

by Barry Zito on Dec 28, 2006 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
There's a lot of spam on that page now.
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Dec 28, 2006 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
No kidding....Is there a way to ban that person?  
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
If the spammer posts a link to porn involving Armando Benitez and Pat Burrell, then yes.
All Your Barrys Are Belong to Us

by Fog City Blues on Dec 28, 2006 2:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Bonds can dress up like Paula Abdul and sing.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
"Straight Up" for irony's sake. And Ishikawa can be a backup dancer in his black man panties again.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 11:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Umm...should I read that as "black man-panties" or "black-man panties"?
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 12:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Man-panties, aka banana hammock. Although his wasn't really a Speedo, it was rather brief nonetheless.

Underwear puns. Ha.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
You're just soooooooooo content today aren't you Baron.  All this talk about banana hammocks, and another "dreamy" pitcher joins the team.  Coincidence?....I think not!
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 28, 2006 1:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Lemme tell ya, crushes on Zito are so 2002.
SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Bochy: "Hey Frandsy, can you play bass?"

Frandsen: "Oh sure, I played some in the minors..."

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Tiltin' at Charlene...ohhhh , that lip gloss....
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 8:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
At least we know this much: Barry Zito is smart enough to realize that no matter what happens, he will be more successful in SF than with the Rangers. Talk about a pitcher's graveyard....

by Blake on Dec 28, 2006 11:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oh my goodness.
LicenseToPills: barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

by Natto on Dec 28, 2006 11:34 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

He can't hit worth a lick!
$18M for a guy with a .038 batting average. Blech.

In all seriousness, the dude does have an exemplary medical history. He needs to stay healthy and productive for at least the first 6 years. Otherwise, the ownership should take the money and pay off the park twice as fast.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
It's good to know that between Bonds and Zito the giants are paying $36 million to two players who will only be out there once every five days.

by GiantQuacker on Dec 28, 2006 11:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Me like Zito.

Me not like 7 years.

Me not like 18 million per year.

Me hope Zito better than b4.

My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Dec 28, 2006 11:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Wow! and Wow! I almost pooped my pants.  I can't believe they agreed to 126 mil for 7 years, but even so, I still can't free myself from the coat hanger grin that's stuck on my face.
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. - Homer Simpson

by attinger on Dec 28, 2006 11:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thats pretty much exactly how I feel
Its easy to be down in the dumps about the amount of time, money is iffy.  

Who's to say that this won'e be the best long-term contract signed in this redic. off season? No one, so I prefer to believe it will be.

I've been told by others I'm entirely too optimistic about sports, but I really do go into every year thinking we've got a chance. And yes, I've rooted for/followed the Giants for the last 20 yrs, so maybe that takes away from my credibility...but so be it!

Go Zito, go Giants

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Dec 28, 2006 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Thats pretty much exactly how I feel
I don't see any reason not to be optimistic.  We won't have to worry about the length of the contract for some time.

Just think:  4 years into the contract, it is highly likely that not one current starting position player will still be on the team, let alone starting (some will be gone next year even).  Bonds, Durham, Vizquel, Roberts, Winn, Klesko, Aurilia, Feliz, Molina - all gone.  We'll have entirely different things to worry about.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Feliz will still be around
The Phone Booth is built on top of an Ohlone burial ground, and the perpetual presence of Feliz on the team is the result of a curse on the Giants for disturbing it. They won't be rid of him until they tear down the stadium and build a new one, preferably on landfill in Foster City.

Skeptics are invited to note that Feliz was first called up the same season PBP opened and has been on the roster ever since.

But yeah, the rest of those guys are probably gone.

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Feliz will still be around
That had me laughing out loud. Thanks.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
He has a complete no trade clause. OMG!

7 YEARS plus an option PLUS a no trade clause. I think I'm going to throw up.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 11:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
You and Taliesin puking...Attinger has the runs...not the reaction you'd hope for.
Cover up.
Attinger...please remain seated. Thank you.
Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 28, 2006 8:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
He'd be a 10 and 5 guy anyway. If we're looking to get rid of him before year 5, then god help us.
Uribe to Thompson to Clark... never forget.

by Birdman on Dec 29, 2006 7:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not my money
it seems to me that most of the time players waive their no trade if they're not wanted or the team starts to suck.

by SFfaninNYC on Dec 28, 2006 12:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: not my money
If by "waive" you mean "leverage the clause to get paid much more money" I do believe you're right.

by Roger on Dec 28, 2006 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Slow starter
Interesting split...

Zito's career numbers in April: 11-15, 5.04, 1.392 WHIP

Zito's career numbers after April: 91-48, 3.31, 1.227 WHIP

That second guy is pretty damn impressive... I hope we get him for at least three or four years!

April has been a key reason for Zito's "down" years (2004 and 2006).

April 2004: 6.83 ERA
Rest of 2004: 4.11 ERA

April 2006: 5.93 ERA
Rest of 2006: 3.53 ERA

A rocky start seems almost inevitable... I predict a lot of freaking out about this deal during the first month of the season.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 12:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slow starter
I thought crappy April's just came with the A's uni.

by Roger on Dec 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slow starter
Or the haircut.  You'd think Zito would have figured out his Samson nature by now.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

also
Two players will need to be cut now...

Matheny and Worrell?

Ortmeier?
Sweeney?

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: also
I still see a trade for Sweeney in the near future.  He is basically an inferior version of Klesko (if Klesko is healthy and can still hit) - poor defense at 1B/LF, can't hit LHP, less power than Klesko.

The Sweeney for middle reliever trade will come soon, I bet.  Either that or Sweeney for LHH backup catcher.  Or Sweeney for second- or third-tier prospect.  At any rate, he is useful, cheap, and tradeable.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: also
Sweeney, Alfonzo, and a C+ prospect to NYY for Scott Proctor?

They then either go with Knoedler or find a vet to backup Molina

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 28, 2006 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: also
Pretty creative, Irwin... the Yankees are looking for a backup catcher and Alfonzo's name has been mentioned.

And if we want to turn Sweeney into something even marginally useful, we'll have to get creative. No one offered Sweeney more than a million per year following his career year in 2005, so I don't expect he has much value after his mediocre 2006. Klesko (career EqA of .300) got $1.75M, Stairs (.291) got a minor league deal, and there hasn't been much interest in Burnitz (.277) or Finley (.273). If these aging lefties aren't wanted, I don't think teams will be lining up for Sweeney (.266). Could we find someone to take on his modest contract? Probably. Could we find someone to give up something of value for this right? I sincerely doubt it.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 2:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

they are considering Mark Loretta!
And Sweeney is a great pinch hitter...

But seriously, I do think Sweeney has slightly more preceived value the other guys you mentioned because of his recent performance. But no, I agree that he wouldn't fetch much by himself.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 28, 2006 2:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: also
Why cut them? Put them on the 60-day DL. Their contracts are guaranteed. You still have to pay them if you DFA.

by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 28, 2006 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: also
People who understand this better than I do have stated that players can't be on the 60-day DL until March, and we'll be at 41 players with Zito and 42 with Bonds well before that, I hope.

Niekro and Ellison are out of options and don't seem to fit into the team's plans, but it's always nice to have plenty of depth in the spring when you have an old and creaky roster. I would lose Knoedler and Munter for the time being, and not lose any sleep over either of them.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 1:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Ugh. At least it wasn't Carlos Lee. But ugh.

by Steve on Dec 28, 2006 12:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the opening of the MLB.com article...
...questionable grammar aside:

"The Giants' rotation has just got better."

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 12:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I think this is a good signing.
First of all the Giants will only spend about 29 million on their rotation next year with 3 lefties, possibly 3 200 innings guys and two guys with legit Cy Young Potential. Better bang for your buck than any other NL rotation with the possible exception of the Marlins.
Secondly the Giants cannot afford to look like losers we needed  a big name signing so we look like an attractive destination otherwise we will end up like the Royals or Detroit 3-4 years ago when you have to overpay for ALL of your free agents. Furthermore this signing will help establish a relationship with Boras that might bring other quality free agents our way.
Thirdly with young pitchers like Cain Lowry Sanchez and Lincecum we can afford to invest a larger amount of money in one pitcher.
Finally since Zito will be pitching in the NL West he will be making almost 2/3 of his starts in pitcher's parks SF 15-17 starts SD 2 starts LA 2 starts.
Overall this is a very good signing and when Zito out pitches Schmidt by a lot it will look even better. Also I bet a good chunk of this money will be deferred and that money I believe comes out of a different budget so this will have less of a payroll impact than it appears.

by cksf on Dec 28, 2006 12:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Definitely the best signing the Giants have made so far this offseason.  Zito should pitch much better in the NL and now at least the pitching will be solid next season (the offense certainly won't).  

Hopefully this will turn out to be a good acquisition even years from now.

by ololo3 on Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
That's not going out on a limb when the only other signings are Bengie "Fat Ass" Molina and Pedro "Slop Swinging" Feliz, and Ryan "Broken Down" Klesko.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 28, 2006 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I accidentally typed "Benihana" Molina in an IM conversation shortly after we signed him, and then I realized it wasn't too far from the truth.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

[rimshot]
No, I'm sure his are much bigger than Asian hooters.
SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 2:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: [rimshot]
Baron, I thought you would like the Office reference!

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh but I did
She's not yo' ho no' mo'.

So what are you: Team Pam or Team Karen? Or do you just want them to make out like many of my friends do?

SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Oh but I did
Jam is out, Paren is in.
SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I don't like it. We're likely to be terrible next year and the year after. And for the next few years after that. We're likely to suck as long as Brian Sabean is still running this team. Zito and his declining stats won't help.

He's delaying the rebuilding process in order to keep his job. I'm on to you, Sabes.

Brian Sabean for President! Whatever keeps him away from the Giants.

by Punch Rockgroin on Dec 28, 2006 1:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Overbid?
Many (most?) of us have complained about the length of this contract, with a general "hey, it's not my money" attitude about the actual dollar amount. Obviously the nature of how teams bid on free agents isn't completely transparent, so Sabes and Magowan could be excused for bidding a bit more than they wanted to in order to get Zito.

Still, the Rangers made it fairly clear they weren't going to go higher than 6 years/$88 million and the Mets were offering more money but a shorter contract (somethling like 5 years/$75 million). Who knows what Boras said to them -- and this is simplifying how the negotiations probably went -- but apparently the Giants outbid the closest team by $38 million.

Did they not essentially end up bidding against themselves? It's a classic Sabean trait, and not a good one.

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 1:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Overbid?
given the previous experiences this offseason, it's not surprising.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 1:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Interesting Stat:

Zito, 2006

Home ERA: 4.71
Road ERA: 2.97

That is for 17 road starts and 17 home starts, with the IP very close (112 to 109).

Why?  I am not sure.  But he did give up 18 HR at home and 9 HR on the road.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 1:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
He also gave up 28 doubles at home vs. 14 on the road.  He walked 9 more guys on the road, too, but his K were about the same (75 to 76).

Luck?  Park?  I'm not sure.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Oakland is a pretty good pitchers park, IIRC
The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 28, 2006 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
It is a good pitcher's park, but mainly because of all the foul ground. The fences are average depth, and if it's warm the ball will carry there.

by taliesin on Dec 28, 2006 7:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Just got off the phone with a buddy (Mets fan) who utterly slammed the deal. People across the web are laughing at Sabes. I think they're projecting their own teams' situations onto our situation a bit too much, though.

My buddy's questions, which I think are the only really pertinent ones: How does this make the team better? Do you really think the Giants can win the World Series now?

First, we have no idea what will happen four years from now. I'm confident in believing that Zito will be very good for the next two seasons, and, if pushed, could be cautiously optimistic about three or even four seasons. As others have pointed out, the "beauty" of a longass deal like this one is that the team will be completely remade within the span of the contract, with Zito as the centerpiece; no more Feliz, Omar, Bonds, Durham, or Winn by the third(?) year, so it'll be a completely different team built around #s 75 and 43. The only thing that could screw it up is if he craters. It's a distinct possibility, but even if he does, so what? That means that we'll be a 90 million dollar team that should be 110 million. Should Zito be the next Mike Hampton, it's reasonable to guess our payroll will still be ahead of the Rockies, DBacks, and Padres, and still behind the Dodgers... basically how it is now. So, in the murky future, I choose to see the downside as more of a two foot high speed bump than a brick wall.

For now, the team is definitely better. I know it's technically fallacious to compare projections for the current year to last year, but:

The offense won't be as good, since all the additions won't make up for a declining Bonds and Durham, and a departed Alou.

The fielding will improve or stay the same, despite the replacement at 1B and the aging middle infield (which I don't think will see that much of a fielding decline, if at all), the outfield gets better with two CFs in the deep parts of the park. Feliz returns with his GG-caliber D.

Zito=Schmidt
Cain gets better
Morris's production catches up to his peripherals
Lowry maintains
5th starter improves due to lack of Jamey Wright

Now compare to the rest of the division: Our rotation beats the Rox and DBacks easily (even with a healthy Webb all year). The Dodgers' top three in the rotation are better when healthy, but with Schmidt (groin, etc), Penny (arm, conditioning), and Lowe (effort, concentration) all potentially problems, and the back end not as good as the Giants' back end (Wolf, coming off surgery, and Billingsley vs. Lowry, stagnating, and Linsanchennesorreia), it's either a wash or in favor of the Giants, depending on how you're feeling at the moment. The Padres' rotation has the best 1-2 in the division (the league?) with Peavy/Young, but Clay Hensley should be in the bullpen, and Bud Black will take every opportunity not to use a fifth starter this year. So Pads/Dods/GMen are now even, pitching-wise, all three of them better than just about any other team in the league, save perhaps the Mets once Pedro returns, or the Fish if the youngsters continue their improbable group success. Let's say the hitting works out well enough--I think a reasonable estimation of "pretty good year for this team" is seventh best in the league in EqA--and the pitching plays out as I've laid out, then we've got a great shot at making the playoffs.

That leads to the second question. Once in the playoffs, we're the team no one wants to face because of our 2-righty-2-lefty rotation and nasty righty-righty-lefty Lincecum-Wilson-Sanchez bullpen, plus a closer we acquired at the deadline, and, as everyone should know by now, the playoffs are like playing Twister, in that, yeah, there are things you can do to help your chances of winning, but it's still mostly luck, and if you screw up you REALLY look bad. But with a 1-2 with Zito and Cain's upside, I'd love our chances if we make the playoffs this year and next.

I may just be irrationally optimistic at the moment, but I think our crappy division makes the move a little more palatable, especially in the short term.

by David Arnott on Dec 28, 2006 1:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
we still can't hit.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 2:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Hitting is only half the battle.

by someguynamedg on Dec 28, 2006 2:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I thought that knowing was half the battle?
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Knowing is half, hitting is half, pitching is two-thirds and the rest is fielding and baserunning.

Remember the wise words of Yogi Berra: "90% of this game is half mental".

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
It's "Baseball is 90% mental.  The other half is physical."
"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Dec 28, 2006 10:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
They had this excerpt from a Rob Neyer chat on the ESPN article about the trade:

"NEYER: The only thing this deal does is make the Giants look ridiculous. Granted, Zito's ERA will get a boost from the National League and the Giants' home ballpark. And this one isn't as dumb as the Mike Hampton deal with the Rockies. But based on the facts at hand, this looks to me like one of the dumber free-agent signings ever. Zito just isn't very good. And if he's worth $18 million per season, Santana's worth $25 million."

Me, I'm just a fan, not a Sabermetrician, so I'm pretty confused as to how anyone could justify saying Zito "just isn't very good." Seems like overstatement is an overused rhetorical technique among certain stats-centric types -- perhaps as a vestige of a time when their opinions were regarded as bizarre.  

As for the salary and length-of-contract objections, I'd be curious to see some historical data on the last decade's increase in salaries among the highest paid 10% and among the highest paid 50% of MLB players.  I have to assume that Sabean et al. see Zito as a top 10% player in terms of performance right now and project him as above-average through the life of this contract. I'd guess that if they're right (big "if"), that $18 million average will seem like a perfectly appropriate salary.

by sularz on Dec 28, 2006 2:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
The not that good has to do with the fact that his ERA is not that far above league average, his strikeout rates are falling, and he walks a lot of guys.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
That is an exaggeration by Neyer.  Zito has posted an ERA+ of 116 the last two years and 105 before that.  If he put up another 116 ERA+, he is in between 1 and 2 starter territory.  That's quite good.

No, it isn't great.  No, he may not keep that up.  No, he may not be worth $18m per.  But he is still quite a good pitcher.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 3:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Even if he's a borderline #1 starter (though there are still more superior starters out there than there are competitive teams) he's being payed more than every single other pitcher in baseball, despite not being close to as good as a number of them. There was no reason for Sabean to offer this contract since nobody else was willing to go 6/$100m by all accounts.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
It's all relative. Santana would've set the standard if he were available, and would've gotten a similar amount, driving everyone else lower. Zito lucked out that he was the best of what was around. The best next year will be likely be a "better" pitcher, but may not get any more than Zito, and perhaps less. It's always relative.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
As for the second part of your question re: Playoffs, the Giants have an extra arm or two and could make a deadline deal to acquire a bat. Who did the Cardinals have besides Pujols? A hurt Edmonds? Speizio? Ekstein? I say let's not worry about our playoff chances until July.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I'm just numb to Giants stupidity at this point. I think this is way too much money for a #2 starter and way too many years for any pitcher, but I honestly can't deal with it anymore so I'll just wait for the off-season, hope we win the division in '06 and not even think about the years that follow. Ugh, Zito is just not that good though. And not the "fun to watch but not that good" either. "Matt Morris fun to watch."
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dude...
I hate to be the first one to break it to you, but we didn't win the division in '06.

by Kitspool on Dec 28, 2006 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Dude...
I'm going back in time to make seven years seem a tiny bit more reasonable. Shhhh!
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Let us hope that we are getting at least a win per million dollars for the next few years.  I wonder if the Giants signing of Zito will calm Boras down regarding his alleged agreement with Angel V. and he will drop his threatened suit.  Disregarding those naysayers - this does make the Giants a better team - is it worth the money over the life of the contract - only time will tell; probably not - but it will make us a better team.

by APGiantsFan on Dec 28, 2006 3:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
No player is worth 18 wins in the standings.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not true, there is one.
Babe Ruth, 1923.

Article on greatest seasons ever:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5777

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Dec 28, 2006 3:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Not true, there is one.
Wow, I thought even Ruth had topped out at just below that. Regardless, barring the greatest seasons by the greatest player ever, no player is worth 18 wins in the standings! ;)
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Not true, there is one.
Bonds is the only modern one in that list with a whopping 15, twice. WOW.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 4:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
I think Sabean's second-most annoying tendency (besides the useless veteran savvy bullshit) is his tendency to bid against himself. He gave Matheny a much bigger contract that anybody was offering him and has now given Zito a 7 year deal at $18m per when no other team was willing to pony up 6yr/$100m
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 28, 2006 3:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Not to mention the overbidding on Molina, who nobody wanted, and Bonds who only the Giants wanted.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 28, 2006 4:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

star power
As I mentioned in one of the pre-official "Zito signs" posts, I prefer overspending on him (or Soriano, had it happened) rather than Gary Lee Pierre Jr. et al, based simply on relative star power--of which none of the other FAs have or ever will have. The Giants were clearly intent on overspending on SOMEONE this offseason, so I'm glad it's on someone who is at least a compelling player, if not a dominant one.
cue: theme from "The Natural"

by VidaWantsYourCar on Dec 28, 2006 3:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: star power
Gwen Knapp said it well:
People wait for intimidators to win, and for craftsmen to lose. They simply don't get it.

Zito is a craftsman.

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 28, 2006 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
From the ESPN article:
"I think it's a very, very good fit," Joe Zito said. "Truly, I am respectful of the owners who came forward and would believe in Barry to such a degree that they would go this far. I am profoundly respectful of that. He is truly happy."
Question: What is the word "respectful" a euphemism for in this case? "f'ing amazed"? "ga-ga"? "happy as a pig in shit"?

by reeky on Dec 28, 2006 4:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Does anyone have a breakdown on the cash flow of an MLB franchise?  Obviously, the NY teams have a running start cash wise over a team in KC, etc.  What is the overhead, daily costs?  I have to go to the gas station and $40 kills me.

by drysdalecousin on Dec 28, 2006 4:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
Maybe you can hit up Zito for a loan - he's bound to be in a generous mood today.
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 4:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
From the Murky News story on the signing:
Zito and Alan Embree will become the 62nd and 63rd players to play for both Bay Area teams.

We definitely got the better end of that exchange...

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 28, 2006 4:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

My Two Cents
Does this deal make us the clear cut favorites to win the NL West and thus gain entry into the WS crapshoot?  Probably not.  Is it likely to make us a better team in 2008,20-09,2010, etc than we would be if we kept our powder dry for, say, Andruw Jones or(gulp) Johan Santana?  Probably not.  It's a bad deal!

OTOH, does it make us a better team today than we were yesterday?  You bet it does!

My brain says this is a bad, bad deal.  The fan in me says "live for the moment!  Who cares about the future?  It ain't my money!"

BTW.  How much is it going to take to sign Johan Freaking Santana when his turn comes?

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 6:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: My Two Cents
I don't see how this deal keeps us out of bidding on Andruw Jones' services. The Giants haven't signed anyone else to a long term commitment, and Benitez, Feliz, Klesko, and much of Bonds' money is off the books after this next year. The danger in the deal isn't in not being able to sign other talent, it is in signing a player for so long a deal that injury could make us all look at Benitez 2005 season with fond and fuzzy thoughts. Of course. that is the problem with any player, and Zito's record and age would tend to say he is as good a bet as anyone to sign for seven years.  So, if Barry's arm falls off in spring training, everyone who laments the deal can say "I told you so," but otherwise enjoy the vast improvement to the starting rotation.
yob

by Sayhey on Dec 28, 2006 6:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: My Two Cents
I'll have to refer to him as Johan F. Santana from now on.
SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 7:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: So much for the slow news days....
How about the good old days and the Rennie Stennett contract?  Seriously, is there a site that outlines the budget for all this craziness?  I will admit that the rotation is decidedly stronger today.  Somebody or two have to step up in the bullpen.  That also applies to the starting lineup.  A career year by someone would help the situation.  Where does Pujols contract put him in highest average salary, 30th?

by drysdalecousin on Dec 28, 2006 8:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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