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Couldn't resist....

These rumors have been floating around various diaries, with folks spouting off in each. But it's time to voltronate this discussion up into a thread that stretches through the weekend, because the rumors just won't die.

Barry Zito.

First, I love typing it. "Zito takes the mound for the Giants...Zito has pitched well over his last five starts...Zito just can't believe Molina let that one get by him...Zito's going to take a walk around the mound, and try and shake off that passed ball..." Barry Zito on the Giants! A true ace to replace Jason Schmidt! Hooray!

Well, in my mind, which is perpetually stuck in 2002, he's a true ace. In the real world, he's pretty much Noah Lowry with spottier control but a little better history of keeping runs off the board. Twenty million dollars or so...fleeeeccch.

But how about this: "Zito will pitch the first game of the series, followed by Cain, then Lowry. The Dodgers will throw out Scott Elbert to replace Jason Schmidt (strained groin), Aaron Sele to replace Randy Wolf (shoulder stiffness), and Brett Tomko to replace Brad Penny (ornery goo)."

That just sounds great when I say it, and it reads great when I type it. Zito on the Giants! A true ace!

But he's not an ace. He's a quality pitcher whose value is as much a function of his durability than anything else. Having him signed through 2011 would be a curious way to build for the future. If 20% of your payroll is going to go to one pitcher for the next five or six years, the pitcher had better be able to sneeze quality starts and shutouts. That plan works better with an increase in payroll (possible, considering the inflation of this offseason), or a quality farm system that would allow the team to compete with pre-arbitration hitters (also, cold fusion could solve the energy problems of the world, so we should look into that.)

But Zito and Cain! Cain and Zito! Cain, Zito, Lincecum, Lowry, Sanchez! Whoop whoop!

But where would the offense come from? If some crazy amount is going to Zito - say $18M a year - wouldn't that seriously hurt the chances of the Giants to sign centerpiece free agents like Adam Dunn or Andruw Jones?

But couldn't you disingenuously argue that a rotation of Zito, Cain, Lowry, Lincecum, and Sanchez will earn a combined $25M to $30M for the next few years? Even with Morris in the mix for the next two seasons, that leaves a lot of scratch for the rest of the roster. That philosophy is very reliant on young pitchers developing as expected, so there is a substantial risk. And there wouldn't be a guarantee that Sabean wouldn't continue to spend on the rotation, using the cheap players as chum. Still...Zito...on the Giants....

He's a floor wax!

He's a dessert topping!

I don't remember the last free agent I've been this conflicted about. The logic behind not signing him is sound; it really, really is. I remember watching Zito in the ALCS, and proactively laughing at the team that was going to sign him to a huge contract. He can melt down with the best of them; Randy Johnson in his prime, he's not.

But....

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Re: Couldn't resist....
but he can't meltdown like estes can he?
I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Dec 15, 2006 11:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Yeah, we keep debating Zito, but I get the feeling no one's mind is ever changed one way or another. To me, it just doesn't add up.
  1. He's good, but he's not great.
  2. It's very likely that his next few years won't be as good as his last few years.
  3. It's going to take a horrendous, future-budget-crippling overpayment to land him.
  4. Even with all that, you could justify it if you had an 86-88 win team. In that case, the four or five wins (optimistic scenario) that Zito adds would be huge. But we don't have such a team. We have a .500 team, if that. Whatever he brings to the 2007 Giants won't be enough to make the difference.

by Evan on Dec 15, 2006 11:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
What Evan said. Except I'd make point #3 into points #1 - #10. But very subtly.
Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle on Dec 16, 2006 8:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
3 year averages.

19-15 (Quality Starts), 112 OPS+, 1.31 WHIP, 1.82 K/BB, 6.4 K/9

17-14 (Quality Starts), 109 OPS+, 1.40 WHIP, 1.67 K/BB, 5.16 K/BB

The first pitcher is better than the second pitcher, but how many million better?  The first pitcher (Zito) will likely sign between $90-$115 million, the second pitcher (Suppan) between $30-$45 million.

I wouldn't sign either, but the money for Zito is a HUGE waste.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 15, 2006 12:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Things to consider, with a bunch of if's:
  1.  If he gives you a better than average chance at the playoffs, this year, it's worth it.
  2.  If he can, year after year, suck up 200 innings per season, it's worth it.
  3.  If 18 mil/per year is cheap in three years, it's worth it.
I'm not worried about future payrolls, I can think of $16-$20 mil coming free, from one player, next year alone.

by Booo on Dec 15, 2006 12:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Something tells me he doesn't want to play for the Giants, nor could the Giants convince him they're contenders.  The Mets have a lot more to offer as a team at this juncture even if it's for less money.

by bisquik on Dec 15, 2006 2:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Just depends on how much less.  If the Mets offer is 5 years and $85M (they are resisting 6 years), the Rangers offer is 6 years and $102M (the rumor), then could not the Giants win the bid with 8 years and $136M?  I know all about the risks as clearly seen in the contract and performance of Mike Hampton.  But Hampton had health problems before his big contract. Zito hasn't even ever missed a start!  It is much more likely that Zito will have the durability of Glavine then that he will break down like Hampton.  

Count me on the side of doing what it takes to win the bid for Zito.  No, he is not an Ace, but he is close and frankly the fact that you can almost go to the bank on 34 to 35 Starts every year with well above average ERA+ makes him more valuable to me then a "true ace" that is far more likely to miss not jsut a few starts but big pieces of multiple seasons.  Just think about how the Mets feel now about giving their "true ace" Pedro 4 years.  Zito is a much better bet for 8 then Pedro was for 4.

 

by giantsrainman on Dec 15, 2006 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

8 Years?
Can't we go like 7 years $16-$16.5 million per?  I guess even 8 years, but do we really have to pay just as much for giving him a longer contract?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 15, 2006 2:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Umm...

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically--I realize we already had a discussion in that other thread--but your comment just happened to be the one that sparked my interest. That said...

I basically think it's incorrect when you say that it's more likely for Zito to be as durable as Glavine than to be as broke as Hampton.

  1. Glavine's a Hall of Famer so there's not a lot of reason to expect any pitcher to be like him. Hampton's contract situation is one of the worst in recent memory (ever?) so you're sort of answering this question for us by using these two players. It's not really a fair comparison.
  2. It's more likely that Zito (or any pitcher) will come to miss at least a few games and/or parts of a season over the length of his contract than to go unscathed.
  3. Regardless, in the four years preceding his big contract, Hampton pitched 34, 32, 34, and 33 games. Averaging well over 200 IP each year.
  4. This is almost too perfect, most similar players by age for Barry Zito:
Age 25: Juan Marichal
Age 26: Mike Hampton
Age 27: Mike Hampton
Age 28: Mike Hampton

5. That eight year contract is such a bad idea.

by coreyml on Dec 15, 2006 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Age 26: Mike Hampton
Age 27: Mike Hampton
Age 28: Mike Hampton

And with that, at 6:36 PST of 12/15/06, Grant finally admitted that Barry Zito would be a very, very, very bad signing.

by Grant on Dec 15, 2006 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
But in the prior two seasons before Hampton only made 27 and 24 starts and in none of the seasons did he not at least miss a start or two like Schmidt as a Giant.  There is just no comparison between the Schmidt like durability of Hampton and the Glavine like durability of Zito.  Zito is worth the gamble while Hampton was not.

by giantsrainman on Dec 15, 2006 9:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Recent performance is more important than older performance and in the four years preceding his contract, Hampton's stats are similar if not better than Zito's.

If you want to give Zito $130M for holding some kind of zero missed start record, then I accept your proposal to agree to disagree.

by coreyml on Dec 15, 2006 10:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I am not comparing their ability I am comparing their dependability.  Zito has never missed a start.  Even in his best four seasons just before he signed with Colorado Hampton missed at least one start a year just like Schmidt has the last four years for the Giants.  The evidance is pretty clear that Zito has shown zero likelyhood to get injured even enough to miss a start.  If anyone is a good bet to be dependable for 8 years it is Zito.  I would much rather give Zito 8 years at $17M each then give "K-Dice" the 6 years at $17M Boston did. ($51M+$52M=$103M/6=$17M)

by giantsrainman on Dec 16, 2006 12:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I want the Giants to sign Zito, but I'm afraid of what's going to happen. If you could assure me of two things, I would be all for the signing.
  1. Will this signing mean for the next six years the Giants won't spend money for other prominent free agents?? Will they be moaning about all that money for one player like they did so many times about Bonds?? If so, don't sign him.
  2. We all know Zito is not a chalk number one starter. What happens if both Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum turn out to the real deals?? Are you going to pay them the kind of money you're paying Barry Zito to keep them, or are we going to enjoy them while they're young and then watch them spend their prime years in Yankee uniforms??
This is what scares me about spending all that money on Zito. So many holes are going to pop up in the next six years that may not be filled because you have one guy making all that money. If the Giants let us know that tying this much money into one guy who pitches every fifth day will not prevent them from upgrading at other positions, I am all for the signing.

by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2006 8:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
i thought it was "Dice-K"

by Azmanz on Dec 16, 2006 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Sounds like Zito is getting rewarded for holding some kind of zero missed start record.

In German, San Diego means "whale vagina." Agree to disagree.

by coreyml on Dec 16, 2006 2:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Grant
I want the guy, but I know the contract could be team death.  But I want him.  If we had him we could have a pretty decent rotation.  Without him we'll likely have a fairly mediocre rotation.  but he's not worth the money.  But I want him.  arrgrhrghr
2002? I'm over it.

by wjackalope on Dec 15, 2006 2:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
In selecting a horse for the long hual maximum durability and better then average ability is far more important then maximum ability and average durability.  Zito is the only horse out there that has proven the maximum durability and above average ability needed to justify such a risk.

The RedSox just went the other path and I for one think 8 years from now whomever signs Zito will look wiser then the RedSox for signing "K-Dice".

by giantsrainman on Dec 15, 2006 2:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
another problem with Zito is this long drawn out Scott Boras led garbage. Who doesn't know that Boras is using the Giants and Rangers here to get the Mets to pay maximum dollars for Zito?? If the Mets refuse to budge off that 5 years 75 million stance they're taking, the Giants may get him, but I think the Mets will up their offer as soon as they think they've lost him. By the time this plays out, not only will the Giants have lost him, but there will be nobody left to sign. I want Zito, but we all know he prefers to pitch elsewhere. We have already been through this with guys like Lee, Soriano and Matthews Jr. I think we should sign Suppan, trade for Sexson and tell Boras and Zito to take a hike. And if not, at least tell Boras the offer is coming off of the table in a week if the doesn't take it.

by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2006 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
Agreed.  Zito as a Met just makes too much sense.  I suspect that Boras is usingthe Rangers and Giants, and maybe some other team (Seattle?) to bring Omar's offer up.

by amoose on Dec 16, 2006 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
Yes, darn that Scott Boras, doing his job!

by zenbitz on Dec 16, 2006 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
nope. darn that brian sabean for letting himself be played by Boras. He probably already was used by Boras this offseason to get some extra money out of Texas for Gagne.

by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2006 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I agree with Grant
I suspect Boras is smart enough to advise his client that Arlington is just about the last place a pitcher with serious fly-ball tendencies should go to pitch. They'd be calling him Chan Ho Zito in no time.

He'd be good in Shea with Beltran at his back, though.

by Evan on Dec 16, 2006 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don Zito Corleone
Just when I thought I was out--they pull me back in! ...  this pretty summarizes might conflict with possible signing.

Initially think 100m+ AND 6years for a pitcher?

Then think 28yr old healthy Cy Young award winner in his prime.  Team him up with Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez and look out MLB because that elusive ring is now in sight.

by wilriv21 on Dec 15, 2006 2:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don Zito Corleone
Yeah, because 90% of the game is 1/2 pitching.  Or something.

by zenbitz on Dec 15, 2006 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don Zito Corleone
Zennie,  I owe you a cold beer.  How should I own up to my lost wager?

by wilriv21 on Dec 15, 2006 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don Zito Corleone
You can email me a beer at ...

hitz at stan ford dot edu

by zenbitz on Dec 16, 2006 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me for this, I know we're all friends here
but

hsssssssssssssssssssssssss

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 16, 2006 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Excuse me for this, I know we're all friends h
If this is some kinda cal/stanford thing... I just work there dude.

by zenbitz on Dec 16, 2006 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Excuse me for this, I know we're all friends h
I'm beholden to hiss at any Stanford image or reference I see. It's nothing against you, and it actually has very little to do with the University itself at this point (minus a couple of really cheap shots in last year's Big Game, I have no actual reason to think poorly of the school or its students). Stanford is a fine Universit.

It's an annoying thing that Cal students do, and I'm sorry to subject you to it, but I'm guilty because I like the rivalry and for no other reason. But on the scale of annoying things that Cal students do, I think it has to rank among the bottom. It's really just harmless.

I mean, and I thin Brian Wilson would agree with me, it's just about being true to my school.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 16, 2006 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Excuse me for this, I know we're all friends h
Who cares about Cal or Stanford?!?  We all know that my Ducks are the class of the Pac-10.  
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 16, 2006 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No...
I'd have to say at least half of baseball is at least 90% pitching.
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 15, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don Zito Corleone
"Team him up with Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez and look out MLB because that elusive ring is now in sight."

I need to get some of what you are smoking.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 15, 2006 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

6yrs of Zito
along the maturation of Messers Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez and there will be enough bong hits for all who tailgate at a World Series game in The City.

by wilriv21 on Dec 15, 2006 4:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
An eight-year contract for a pitcher is a terrible, terrible idea. Anything more than 3-4 is incredibly risky, but eight is just dumb.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 15, 2006 5:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Couple of things.

The Giants are much better with Zito. No doubt.

You are only bugged if you worry about his the cost and duration of his contract. Which nobody here is paying. And for all we know Al Qaeda will be running the San Francisco Board of Supervisors by 2009.

None of this makes any difference because Zito is not going to sign with the Giants anymore than I am.

Thats 3 things

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 15, 2006 6:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I think Zito doesn't want to stay in the Bay Area, so I think this is probably moot.

If, however, he did want to stay in the area and would take something like the Texas offer 6/$100M, I don't think it would be a horrible idea. It wouldn't be a good idea, but I've seen way worse (Pierre). I would be Ok with it, just not particularly excited. Since the Giants are unlikely to make the playoffs (much less win the Series next year) with or without Zito, and since the Giants seem to have a decent amount of good young (and cheap!) pitching in the pipeline, I would prefer to keep the payroll space available to add a big bat next year either through free agency (Jones, Dunn) or trade (A-Rod).

Yes, he would look good in the French Vanilla, but so would Andruw Jones.

The current team's weaknesses, in order of severity, are:

  1. Offense
  2. Hitting
  3. Scoring Runs
  4. Bullpen
  5. Starting pitching
So, while adding Zito would make the Giants better, he doesn't address the real problem, especially since he's not a shutdown, throw a bunch of shutouts kind of guy. More like, pitches seven solid innings, gives up three or four runs. To win those games, you need to score four or five runs -- which the Giants won't be able to do that often, barring the return of Bonds 2003.

by taliesin on Dec 15, 2006 7:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Even if we accept your order of the Giants weakness their is still a way for this upfront solution to the 5th priority to infact become a solution to the first three.  All you have to do is trade Lowry or Sanchez after signing Zito for a young cheap high quality major league ready bat.  If you can't sign an expensive high quality major league bat (ala Soriano and Lee) then why not sign an expensive high quality major league arm (Zito) so that you can do the above trade?  However, by no means do I want to trade for an expensive bat on top of signing an expensive arm.

by giantsrainman on Dec 16, 2006 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Now let's adress the validity of your priorities.  As I see it the signings we have done todate make our 2007 offense and bullpen about equal to their 2006 counterparts.  In 2006 our offense ranked 10th in the NL in runs scored but only 8 runs behind 8th so basicly middle of the pack.  In 2006 our bullpen ranked 15th in the NL in ERA only ahead of the Brewers while our rotation ranked 6th.  But, our rotation has lost it's best performer (Schmidt) and it is asking alot for the remaining members to improve enough to make up for this loss.

You can win a division with a middle of the pack offense if you have a near top of the pack rotation and middle of the pack bullpen.  Barry Zito would give us a near top of the pack rotation and signing David Wells too could allow our bullpen to improve to middle of the pack by placing Hennessey, Sanchez, and Lincecum in the bullpen mix for 2007.

Taking a page out of the playbook of the 2006 RedSox how about Lincecum (ala Papelbon) as closer?  Taking a page our of the playbook of the 2000 thru 2003 Twins how about Sanchez (ala Santana) as a setup man?  Hennessey performed best last year as the long man out of the pen and he could have this role exclusively in 2007.

With Zito and Wells joining Cain, Lowry, and Morris in the Rotation and Lincecum, Sanchez, and Hennessey joining Correia, Chulk, Wilson, and Kline in the Bullpen I very much like the looks of this pitching staff and think it will be more the good enough to win with the offense we already have.  

A final thought, if we do this we will actually have achieved being younger and healther then last year.  Molina, Roberts, Linden, and Frandsen are younger and healther then Matheny, Finley, Alou, and Vizcaino.  Zito, Lincecum, Sanchez, Wilson, and Hennessey are younger and healther then Schmidt, Benitez, Stanton, Worrell, and Wright.  Yes, Aurilia is older then Hillenbrand and Wells is older then dirt, but overall this team would indeed be both younger and healther.    

by giantsrainman on Dec 16, 2006 12:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Morris > Zito. Even last season when Morris was horrible and overpaid at $9M, he still have up less baserunners than Zito.

by mxmob33 on Dec 15, 2006 11:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I think Zito is going where he has the greater opportunity to win a pennant as well as a world series ring. Sadly to say it's not the Giants...I wish it was the case. I feel the Giants will sign Suppan. It's not a great choice, but not as bad as some other signings. In addition they may have enough leftover to bring in a bat.

by Buzzword on Dec 16, 2006 2:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Barry Zito is the cat's pajamas, but Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver, Tony Armas, or Scott Schoeneweis could also surprise and help the pitching staff. David Wells and Russ Ortiz might prove useful dumpster dives- crazier things have happened. Shea Hillenbrand and Aubrey Huff could upgrade 1b/3b depth. And that's just the free agent market.

There are still several creative ways Sabean can improve this club  before April, 2007. In retrospect, I feel the 1 yr/$5m spent on Feliz was the only set-back this offseason. If Feliz is pushed to the bench, he could actually be seen as a plus instead of a minus, salary nonwithstanding.

by Kid Fresh on Dec 16, 2006 6:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I agree completely with you. The Feliz signing made me mad because it made me feel like it was taking the Giants out of a pursuit of a slugging heart of the order first baseman like Sexson or Burrell. The Feliz signing would be more palatable if he was pushed to the bench, but even then it would mean that there was no room for Kevin Frandsen. That is why the Feliz signing was a mistake no matter what happens.

by rxmeister on Dec 16, 2006 8:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
Now that Vernon Wells won't be availble next year, I want Zito a little bit more.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 16, 2006 10:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Barry Zito
My heart says yes; my head says no. I plan to resolve this by drinking, starting now.

Seriously, I'd be thrilled with a Zito signing. He's a durable, above-average pitcher who's easy to like and in his prime. Almost any team could use a guy like that.

But I can't help but look at those translated walk and strikeout rates at Baseball Prospectus and wonder if this is going to end badly. And it's not like the Giants are one player away from the World Series.

by Dan from NM on Dec 16, 2006 4:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

NO NO NO
Zito is not a particularly good pitcher.  His WHIP in two of the last three years has been at 1.40.  His K/9 and K/BB declined precipitously last year over the previous year.

In pitching, you never pay for reputation.  As charming as Zito is, he is not going to get better over the next 5-7 years.

Pass.  Don't even think about it.

Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 17, 2006 10:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NO NO NO
Amen brother.. amen. Too much time is spent talking about his durability and not enough about his actual production, which is not particularly good. It wouldn't matter if he was perfectly healthy for the next 12 years, putting up 1.40 WHIPS is not worth $8M, let alone $18M.

This would be the ultimate case of paying for reputation instead of value.

by mxmob33 on Dec 17, 2006 2:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I read on Olney's blog today that the Blue Jays are shoping Alex Rios. I thought about this trade when the Blue Jays missed out on Lilly that we should trade Lowry for Rios. In which case we would need to sign another starter for sure and then what makes more sense Zito at 6/100 mil or Suppan at 4/45 mil or somebody else at 3/25 mil? I am not really sure.

by cksf on Dec 17, 2006 10:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rios came into his own last season
The kid was raking and then got an infection (I believe).  He is (wilriv likey) young and talented.  He finally started to hit the ball with power and plays a solid D.  Kick the tires Sabes.

by wilriv21 on Dec 17, 2006 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rios came into his own last season
Alex Rios is a stud.  With the Wells signing, he is the man the Giants should absolutely trade for.  Coming into his 4th major league season, look for him to break out in a year or two.  I don't know if he's worth Lowry, though.  
I continually ask myself why I am a Giants fan.

by Shawn Estes for President on Dec 18, 2006 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rios came into his own last season
He didn't just have an infection - it was a staph infection!

I have had a staph infection.  In fact, I had to have knee surgery as a result.  Very bad news.

Rios was quite good last year, but I don't know if his track record indicates that he would keep it up.  Also, I don't know if they would give him up.  They are looking at an OF of Wells, Rios, and Lind - that's nice.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 18, 2006 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rios came into his own last season
Wait... I forgot about Reed Johnson and the Big Hurt DHing... maybe they would trade Rios.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 18, 2006 10:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Couldn't resist....
I don't think I can listen to KNBR anymore.  Every time the Giants are mentioned, someone has to call in and say the Giants NEED to sign Zito.  I was listening on the way home today, and was sick of all of the people saying we should give Zito $20mil.  

The Giants don't need to sign a marquee player just to have a marquee player.  Specific needs should be addressed, and starting pitching is near the bottom of the list.  

Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 20, 2006 10:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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