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Son of Title

Finals time, so there's no way I can get together a steaming pile of wisdom for you today. Instead, just a true/false comment starter:

If the Giants were to pick up either Pat Burrell or Richie Sexson without giving up Lowry, and the team signs David Wells for a one-year deal, I believe the Giants would contend in the West.

You can mix and match the names if you'd like, but true or false?

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Re: Son of Title
True.

Apparently, Mando wants to go back to the Marlins and they want him as well. Sabean, make it happen.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 13, 2006 8:46 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
True. That could be a pretty good team, health permitting.

by mxmob33 on Dec 13, 2006 9:03 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Not true. Until they do something about that bullpen, it just doesn't matter what bat they add to the lineup.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 13, 2006 9:07 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
If they sign Wells as Grant states, that pushes either Sanchez or Hennessey to the bullpen.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Not true. Wells will be out half the year with back problems. I think Zito makes them a contender, or the acquistion of Sexson/Burrell and a guy who will definitely take the ball every fifth day like Jeff Suppan. Knowing the Giants like I do, they will not take the final necessary step to become contenders. They will get the pitcher and try to get by with Aurilia and maybe a Ryan Klesko at first base.

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 5:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Yeah, I'd buy that. I wouldn't even mind if they went into the season without Sexson or Burrell; I suspect at least one of them will be available for next to nothing at the trade deadline.

by Evan on Dec 13, 2006 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Definitely True.

I think the Giants can contend for the NL West (as it currently stands) right now.  Do I think they'll be a good team?  Of course not.  But unless the Dodgers get another big bat, none of the teams in the NL West are all that intimidating.  I do think both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks have a chance to be really good by the end of the decade.  I just don't think that their youngsters will be all that good this year.  I think the Giants can win about 85 games iff:

1.)  Cain pitches 75% as well as he did in August/September.
2.)  Brian Wilson, Billy Sadler, etc. come of age
3.)  Bonds plays about 115-120 games and has an OPS around 1,000
4.)  Lincecum makes an impact by midseason.
5.) Armando Benitez injures his pitching arm while shoveling down breakfast burritos.

by brauber on Dec 13, 2006 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I agree with your assessment of the Dodgers and Dbacks, but it looks to me like Colletti has no plans to EVER play his young guys. At least with Sabean we can say that he doesn't have a choice because his young players aren't very good, but what's Colletti's excuse?? The Dbacks have shown this offseason they are indeed going to play the young guys and in the next few years they will be the team to beat. I don't think any of their good young players are pitchers though. They are going to have to go the free agent route to help themselves there.

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 5:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
They need to address the lack of a dependable closer before they can be considered contenders, but this deal would definitely help.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 9:12 AM PST reply actions  

True
Though I live in SD and Wells was on the radio this morning basically begging for SD to offer him a contract.

But within those parameters yes the Giants would contend.

by hammystyle on Dec 13, 2006 9:29 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
False. They'd be just good enough to keep me watching all season, and then lose 8 straight in August.

Help me, Barry Zito, you're my only hope.

Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra. Feliz grounds out.

by HughG16 on Dec 13, 2006 9:32 AM PST reply actions  

parsing sequels, I know...
No, there is another.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Another babka?
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 13, 2006 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Another babka?
We'll be going in with lesser Babka!!
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 13, 2006 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: How about Zabka?
You may remember him from such masterpieces as Shootfighter: Fight to the Death, Shootfighter II, Antibody, Mindstorm, and The Karate Kid Parts I & II.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: parsing sequels, I know...
But his name is Matsuzaka and he is flying to Boston. Or is that Dagobah? I can never keep these things straight.
yob

by Sayhey on Dec 13, 2006 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
False. They lost their best pitcher and possibly their best hitter from last year - their offense is still god awful and likely to be worse, and about the only improvement was on OF defense.

by Aadik on Dec 13, 2006 9:35 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Cain was significantly better than Schmidt the second half of last season (ERA, WHIP, K/9, H/9, IP, etc). And who was a better hitter than Bonds last year?

by mxmob33 on Dec 13, 2006 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I can only imagine he's talking about Pee Hands...
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 13, 2006 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Aadik,
I guess there's no pleasing you no matter what the team does.  You'd call the following lineup "still god awful"?

Roberts (improved leadoff from Winn in 2006)
Vizquel (probable slight decline from 2006)
Durham (probable slight decline from 2006)
Bonds (2nd half results indicate probable improvement)
Sexson or Burrell (probably health would make it a wash compared to Alou)
Winn (probable imrovement over 2006 results)
Aurilia (improvement over Feliz)
Molina (improvement over Notgardo/Matheny)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
"God awful" may be harsh - mediocre is more like it. Last year, SF scored 746 runs. Alou was the second best bat on the team (I was wrong about calling him the first - my mistake) and hit .301/.352/.571 - that's an OPS of over .900 that the Giants have let go and not replaced.

Bonds is amazing as always, but he's likely to be worse than last year - the man is going to be 42. To expect him to put up an OPS over 1.000 again seems optimistic - as does the idea of his staying healthy .

Winn hit .262/.324/.396 last year - his career numbers of .284/.343/.421 suggest there's likely to be some reversion upwards, but he's also at an age where mediocre players often fall of the cliff. I'm inclined to agree with you that he will improve.

Aurilia over Feliz sounds good, but I don't think it will happen - They would not give Feliz $5 million to be a backup. Aurillia is the super-utility man this year.

Durham hit .293/.360/.538 last year - the highest slugging percentage of his career (he's a career .443 slugger, and this was 50 points higher than his previous high), at age 34. I think he's likely to revert back significantly to form, much like Winn in 2006 as compared to 2005.

Vizquel hit .295/.361/.389 last year - his highest OPS in the last 4 years. What do you think the odds are on him replicating that or coming close to it? I think he's more likely to revert to his 2005 numbers - again, due to the age.

Molina is an improvement, but not much of one on Notgardo - a .284/.319/.467 line as opposed to the  .266/.302/.465. Again, it was a career high OPS for Molina, and I'd be surprised if he matches Notgardo's line from last year.

I see a bunch of guys who had good ( to great seasons by their standards, and a lineup that's gotten even older - the same lineup from last year would perform worse. Yes, Sexson or Burrell would improve it, but its still mediocre, at best.

by Aadik on Dec 13, 2006 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
While Alou was a solid bat, he had only 378 PAs in 2006, which is only about 2/3 of a season and meant Steve Finley got waaay too many ABs.  I think Alou's production will be missed less than we think if we get a guy like Sexson or Burrell.

I'd say Durham's bat was far more valuable than Alou'sbecause it was there.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
This is not to mention Durham has spent most of his career batting leadoff, which brings about a whole different approach to the plate.  At least I think it does.

by sfgfan on Dec 13, 2006 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
In that case, can we bat Feliz leadoff? If ever anyone needed a different approach, it's Happy Pete...
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 13, 2006 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Not to toot my own horn, but perhaps these will help:  http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/12/8/141259/211

Scientifically proven.  Giants line-up (at least offensively) should be a shade better than it was last season.  A Sexson addition would help a fair amount.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Sorry, scroll down to "HERE ARE MY PROJECTIONS FOR NEXT SEASON".
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I agree that's a nice lineup. The problem is I see no signs they are looking to get Sexson or Burrell, and you forgot that while you and I would move Aurilia to third base and bench Feliz, I don't think they will.

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 5:47 AM PST up reply actions  

True
But not because of Wells. I don't think he will save the day in any way, shape, or form, and I don't think the Padres will lose him (they have a nice combo of young phenoms and old wizards).

To me, it's all about sex, son.

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 13, 2006 9:52 AM PST reply actions  

Richie Rich
That's what our first base situation would be called. I ferkin' love it! "Do it, Do it!"
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Dec 13, 2006 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Richie Rich
I'm more for calling that two-headed beast "Rich y Rich"
Chulk angry! CHULK SMASH!!

by CystedTwister on Dec 13, 2006 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Of course these are true statements.  To argue otherwise is "false."  Grant uses "if" 'cause we haven't played a game yet.  How do any of us know that Winn won't hit or that Schmidt's arm won't fall off.  We don't.  If, IF, Sabean can get Wells for a season and get Mr. Burrell (ban me!), we can pretty well assume that the Giants will contend.  Am I nuts?  Don't think so.  Our roster isn't sexy to be sure.  But, looking at the numbers, there is no reason why the players that we have can't have seasons as they've had in the recent past and put up pretty good numbers.  My point is that we don't know yet...'cause it's DECEMBER.  

How can "false' selectors even write that?  What do you want?  Yankees money and David Wright and Grady Sizemore and Jake Peavy.  Jesus, the dogs are out.   I can certainly be negative about the situation that we've (well, the Front Office) have put ourselves in, but we're still in DECEMBER.  

Many here have made up their mind about Sabean, as if his job is over and he's failed.  It's not and he hasn't.  He's made good and bad moves and has chosen to construct an elderly roster, etc.  We know all of this.  But, as I've written here before, he's not done a bad job THIS off-season.  It's so much easier to be negative.  I can just see some of us reacting to a potential Soriano signing:  "Fucking Sabean's going to waste money on HIM!"  vs. not signing Soriano:  "Fucking Sabean could've signed Soriano and he didn't, fire him."  

Baseball's a game of failure.  It's a marathon that's very difficult to predict.  Again, we all know this.  My point (of many) is to give the team a chance for a second.  I mean, the freaking Cardinals, a team with one great hitter, a good pitcher, and a bunch of injury woes, scrubs, and 'tweeners just won the World Series.  The Cardinals, the team that just about blew it's NL Central lead in an epic collapse.  Not only did they retain it, but they pulled their shit together and trudged through the play-offs.  The Cardinals?  Yes, Pujols is great, but they roster is not that much better (if better at all) than the Padres, Dodgers, Giants, Astros, Mets, Braves, or Phillies.   That's just the NL.  The Cardinals' roster certainly isn't better than 10 AL teams.

Easy...and Zito's not the "savior" answer.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:56 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I should say "possibly true"...I'm also not going to predict yet just how we'll do.  But, damnit, I'm still not sold that we stink either.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I don't think most of the regulars are down on Sabean's moves this off-season.  Your opinion seems to be the consensus.  

Sabean hasn't (thus far) screwed the future this off-season.  He's protected the good prospects and signed vets to mostly relatively inexpensive short term contracts.  Which is arguably the best he could have done in the situation.

But the fact is, right now, the Giants would field a mediocre team.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Ahhh, I know.  It's self-loathing really.  I'm just pissed that I've had to resort to defending Sabean for failing to sign free agents.  And, I'm still pissed that Schmidt wasn't moved.  Yeah, yeah, sour grapes.  So, in the vein of being positive, I'm giving him my support 'till Spring Training...then all bets are off.

We really need a draft that gives us (odds-wise) two MLB regulars in the near future.  

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I agree, Kent. Well, at least I agree with Sabean's results so far. Given the (largely self-inflicted) mess he had to start with, he's put together something that resembles a major league baseball team while signing no $20M contracts in a year where Jason Marquis is a $20M+ player, trading no young players, and pulling in a decent haul of draft picks.

But I can't help but think that he got here accidentally, and that he signed Bonds and Roberts for $34M only because he couldn't sign Lee and Pierre for $150M. And that some of the reasons I like these results (there is room for 1,000 at-bats between Linden, Frandsen and Alfonzo on this roster, and almost all of the veterans have tradeable contracts) might not fit with the approach of Sabean and Bochy.

Either way, Sabean has made it through the winter without making any moves that will seriously hurt this team in the future, so God bless him for that.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 13, 2006 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Son of Title
Did Santiago really say that to Jones?  That quote brings a smile to my face.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 14, 2006 7:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I don't know if Benito was being literal when he claimed to have said that, but I'd like to think that he was...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/10/08/SP21427.DTL

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 14, 2006 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
True we would contend
who in the west would better than
3.Durham
4.Bonds
5.Sexton

by cksf on Dec 13, 2006 10:00 AM PST reply actions  

Contend in the West
True.  All teams will contend.

Win?   Do not think SF has enough pitching and will not win unless they resolve this issue.

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 10:05 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Coolio G.

Lurch at First moves Richie Aorta to 3rd and gets Fleas bat out of the everyday lineup. (He is equally worthless against lefties as righties almost so no platoon for Fleas...just utility)

Wells ain't comin here...see elsewhere in somebody's diary on why.  Besides I like Sanchez' chances in the rotation better than Free Willy's at this stage of his career. I imagine some pitching will shake out in Spring Training.

I am worried less about the pitching this year than at anytime since 2002 simply because Alou is not around to mangle all the arms.  Bochy knows pitching.  

Don't forget that Bonds, when healthy, like he was in the second half, was the most disruptive presence in the National League last year. I'm betting he will be again.

I don't look for this team to very good in April to July, unless LA,Zona, Padrox, shit themselves early and often and the Giants break out of the gate by winning 8 out of 10.  Remember, under Alou, these guys never put together a big winning streak...The pitching breakdowns contributed mightily to that after 2003. If I'm not mistaken, Bochy has always figured a way to bridge games so as to put together 2 or 3 big winning streaks for the Padres every year.  I could be wrong, but I seem to think that is part of his m.o.

Anyway.  Play Ball. Winter Sucks.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 13, 2006 10:09 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
That reminds me; I always hated the way would lay down after winning the first two games of the series.  I understand guys need rest, but he'd put in all 2nd stringers if the Giants would take the first two games.  That had to piss off whoever the starter would be that day to look at the lineup card and see Bonds Duram and Alou missing.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Yeah, that drove me nuts as well. Although the list of things about this team that drove me nuts last year was as long as my arm.

Re: winning streaks, if I remember correctly, the Giants didn't win more than four or five games in a row at any time from April to at least August. Maybe all the way through the season. They were consistently mediocre.

by Kitspool on Dec 13, 2006 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
You want to see mediocre?  Check out the Giants record on home games played on a Sunday (the typical Alou decides to even give the bat boys the day off)
Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Dec 13, 2006 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Well thats kind of what I'm talking about.  Instead of 2 to 3 in a row follwed by a loss, than another 2 to 3 to give you 4 out of 6 (or 6 out of 8) Boche's m.o. has been to figure out a way to win 6 in a row.

While thats only two games, its a plus 2 games in the standings.  Do that 4 times and thats 8 games in the standings for the season. Its 24-0 vs 16-8. Do six games in a row instead of 4 out of 6 about once every 6 six weeks, and voila; same team just went from 8 games under .500 to 8 games over.  77 and 85 just became 85 and 77.  Thats just about the difference between the Padres and Giants the last couple of years-give or take.  That is a result of putting ALL (not just a favored few) of the players you have, in the best position to maximize their potential to contribute to victory, over the course of a long grueling season.

Goofus points out the definite improvements in the batting order from last year too.

Have the Giants done everything I wanted them to do?  Hell no.  But right now, I like our chances better than I did going into 05 and 06.  By a lot.

The media can make all the noise they want about Lamar, but we've all been through it, been there, done that, nothing new, move along.  

I am really excited about Matt Cain, Noah Lowry being healthy all year, Kevin Correia, Brian Wilson, Jonathan Sanchez, and having Barry healthy going into Spring Training for the first time since 2004--which btw, was the last time our guys really competed well. Timmah II will be 22. I give him a good look in Spring Training. If he is dominant and we've not added an established arm to the rotation, I give him a shot to be Justin Verlander, Joel Zumaya, Jonathan Papalbon.  Now how exciting would that be to have Timmah II blow some ched by Jeff Kent, Nomar and company?

Down and out about Jason Schmidt? Tough. I'll take Matt "DammitBobby" Cain, next year head to head vs Schmidt. My 330,000 vs. their 15.2 million. Who do you want? Brad Penny vs. Jonathan Sanchez, Big fat slob spoiled baby, or the Puerto Rican Cool Hand Luke? Matt Morris or Jeff Weaver?  I'll take a now healthy Morris over the refugee from Deliverance thank you very much. I could go on, but you get the picture.

Bochy is upbeat about Aurelia.  He mentioned that Richie made some major adjustments to his game last year to rejuvinate his career. I'm buying it for the time being. Cain made major adjustments, mid season and saved himself a year floundering in AAA. He's still green, and he was astounding. It would not be the first, nor the last time a veteran player has made adjustments in his game and regained form.  Richie takes very good care of himself physically.  No reason to not expect him to have a good season.

The acrimony between Barry and Magowan is about to become yesterday's news.  By New Years Day, most will have forgotten the rancor from the off-season.

One more bat. One more arm. That will help a lot. But there comes a time when the paper shuffling has to stop and flesh and bone, head and heart have to take the field.  So much of what happens is predicated upon attitude. The guys in the National League are really close in terms of physical tools. Health plays a part of course. But the tools and abilities are so close that the difference over the course of the season will be of attitude and the baseball gods.  

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 13, 2006 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Holy crap. The end is nigh. You're not actually...optimistic, are you, E? Hey, you space aliens, what have you done with E? You better bring him back safe and sound!
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Dec 13, 2006 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Truth be told, when he's not been stuck ranting and railing against the general inane nature of various things happening in the present, E has been having a very optimistic offseason when asked to think about the future.

It can't rain all the time.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I think it's because Sabean hasn't made an idiotic destructive mega deal to Soriano, Matthews or Jeff Suppan......yet.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I've noticed that too.  Several completely reasonable and coherent posts with barely any hint of a rant at all.  It's a little disconcerting.

by Snof on Dec 13, 2006 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Up the voltage on your shock therapy, E?

by zenbitz on Dec 14, 2006 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Nah, just started using a better conducting fluid.

Er, well, to be honest, just started using conducting fluid.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2006 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Trade Armando
I say send Armando back to Florida for a young prospect that we can build around for the future (perhaps Jeremy Hermida).  Then sign Zito and trade Lowry for Sexon.  

Lineup would be:

CF: Roberts
SS: Vizquel
2B: Durham/Aurilia
LF: Bonds
1B: Sexon
RF: Winn
3B: Feliz/Aurilia
C:  Molina

Rotation: Zito, Cain, Morris, Ortiz/Moss, Sanchez

Bullpen:  Worrel, Kline, Lincecum, Correia, Hennessy, Wilson

Bench:  Frandsen, Aurilia, Linden

by bschor00 on Dec 13, 2006 10:49 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Don't think Florida would give up Hermida for Mando, but maybe Mike Jacobs...
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 13, 2006 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Florida takes on a Giant salary and gives up a serviceable and cheap young player to do so.

I don't think so.

Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 13, 2006 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
All the discussion about trading Benitez in the Florida papers has assumed that the Giants would have to pay most of his salary to get a deal done. Even then, Jacobs or Hermida would probably be out of reach, as the Marlins are hurting for bats in their system.

They have more young pitchers than they know what to do with, though. With Willis/Johnson/Sanchez/Olsen holding down the rotation, maybe one of their lesser young arms (Nolasco? Petit? One of their many promising arms in the low minors?) would be a better fit.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 13, 2006 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Two things:
I think Moss making the team is a long shot.

Why no Chulk in your bullpen? Dude's good!

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Has Chulk has been absent from the bullpen in lineup posts here? Or if I just missed it, I'm on crazy pills again. Point is, you're right. He's good and needs to be in there.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
I think his absence from lists is an oversight.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 13, 2006 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Technically, he is a FA, no?  I think the assumption is that he will resign, but nothing official has occurred yet.

by amoose on Dec 14, 2006 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
He's pre-arb, isn't he?
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 14, 2006 8:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
I thought we had control of his rights for at least the next few seasons.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 14, 2006 10:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Yes, he is pre-arb this year, which means we have at least arbitration rights through the 2010 season.

The Vinnie Chulk era has only just begun!

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 14, 2006 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Chulkamania is in its infant stages!
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 14, 2006 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Armando
Which means that Sabean will trade him for another DP Pierzynski...
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 14, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I have very little confidence that David Wells helps this team. So, no, my answer is no. maybe. Or perhaps they win the division by 12 games and sail into the Series. With a 3 run lead in the bottom of the ninth of game seven, Bochy brings in Armando to save the game, and ..... No, my answer is just no.
yob

by Sayhey on Dec 13, 2006 11:08 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think we need Zito.  Sure it would be great to have a solid, dependable pitcher for the next 6 years.  But at 20 million a year, our future would be crippled financially.  How are we suppossed to sign Vernon Wells next winter? (hopefully the Jays won't resign him, PLEASE) Does the Giant payroll really have enough money for TWO 20 million a year guys?  I don't think so.  Cain and Lincecum are the future aces of this rotation.  Lowry is a strong 3rd.  I hope its that way for years to come.  I say TRUE on the question, adding a power bat and another relievier/league average starter makes this team a contender.  Leaving the pitching as it is will lead to improvement as these guys age.
I've been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder ever since Game 6.

by April3rdLifeBegins on Dec 13, 2006 11:18 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
You get a guy like Wells with the freed up money from Bonds, Mando, Worrell and Matheny.  You also free up salary by moving Morris when Lincecum makes his way into the rotation.

2007
Zito/Cain/Lowry/Morris/Sanchez

2008
Zito/Cain/Lowry/Sanchez/Lincecum

I like the idea of starting Sanchez this year so we don't have two first-year starters next year.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Sounds like the Vladi argument.
Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 13, 2006 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
True.  
I think the Giants would contend with Burrell/Sexon + Wells.  But I don't think they'd win.

At the very least, the rotation would have to be:
Cain, Morris, Wells, Lowry, Ortiz.

by MGE on Dec 13, 2006 11:36 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Wells AND Ortiz.

Whoops , there's lunch. Again.

Your message here!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 13, 2006 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Hold on a minute now.

Am I blind, or is Sanchez not on that list?

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
"At the very least, the rotation would have to be:
Cain, Morris, Wells, Lowry, Ortiz."

The only Giant uniforms I see Orson and Russ wearing,  come off the Halloween Costume rack at Rochesters Big & Fat.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 13, 2006 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Tyler already bought them.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Orson had lots of veteran savvy, and never made a pitch before its time.
Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 15, 2006 6:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I Don't Think
that Sabean sees much of a problem with Aurilia as the starting first baseman.

In the past six years, Giants first basemen, aggregated, (Snow, Niekro, Feliz, Minor, Hillenbrand, Galarraga, Sweeney, Kent, Crespo) have hit .262/.340/.418, with 76.5 RBIs per 600 PAs.  That's more or less about what we can reasonably expect from Richie.

I think that Sabean sees a starting pitcher, and maybe some bullpen help, as the final pieces of the 2007 puzzle.

I hope that I'm wrong about that ...

by SnowLeopard on Dec 13, 2006 11:44 AM PST reply actions  

Re: I Don't Think
What does Brian Sabean have against 1Bmen?  Was there a 1Bman on his sandlot team that used to beat him up?

Or did he make a deal with the devil?  Something like this? "You can general manage a team with the greatest player in baseball at your disposal for as many years as you like, but you may never have anything but poor hitting 1Bman.  I want you to remember these names: Pedro Feliz, Shea Hilenbrand, Damon Minor, Lance Neikro, Felipe Crespo.  People will laugh at you, but to attain control people's will, you must play these fools at 1B."

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 14, 2006 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
True- the Giants would contend. I'll take either Burrell or Sexson, as the Giants need a slugging first baseman and a bat to protect Barry (and less AB's for Feliz is always a good thing.) I value Burrell more than than Sexson (OBP, salary, age, baserunning, D). But beggards can't be choosers- the Giants would be lucky to land either one. Without trading Lowry, the Giants would have to do something linke Benitez + Sanchez + Frandsen.

David Wells would be welcome, but Sabean has essentially painted himself in the Zito corner. How do you let Schmidt walk to the Dodgers, and not counter that move?

Contrary to popular belief, I think the Giants have the potential to have a great bullpen next year, as long as Mando is shedded, Worrell retires, and at least two starters are added.

Zito-Cain-Morris-Lowry-Linecum.
Wilson-Sanchez-Kline-Correia-Hennesey-Chulk-Sadler.

Could happen. Don't even need David "I was offended" Wells.

by Kid Fresh on Dec 13, 2006 11:50 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Magowan and Sabean look pretty silly after making those after the season comments about one player making too much money, and then not only bringing Bonds back at 16 million, but offering 20 million per season to Barry Zito. That being said, it's not my money and Barry Zito makes them an instant contender even if they do nothing else. But if they DO sign Zito at that outrageous sum, does it mean we have to listen to them whine about having no money for free agents the next six offseasons?? By all means sign Barry Zito, but please don't try and tell us that the signing solves all the team's problems for the next six years.

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 6:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
KF, If Sabean had any intention of having Linececum start in the majors this year, they would have moved him to AA.  I suspect he will spend the entire year in the minors, then compete for a starters role in 08, altho they may have him relieve for a year to acclimate.
  I do not think Sabean will have two big ? marks in the rotation.  I susp[ect they bring somebody in - Zito, Suppan - and let they young guys battle it out in ST for the #5 spot - Sanchez, Moss, Hennessey, Correia (altho, and I don't know why, they seem to see Correia as a RP).
  Personally, I hope Sanchez wins the battle and establishes himself in '07, paving the way for Linececum to start in '08.  The reasonaing here is, two rookies puts to much work and strain on the bull pen.

by allfrank on Dec 13, 2006 12:39 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Well thought out reply, allfrank. Please excuse my illogical zealousness for Linecum. In reality, he will start the year at AA or AAA. In my above assesment, I figured Tim could start the year in the pen, and at some point make the move to the rotation... long shot, yes. But if Linecum is straight dealin' in ST, how can the Giants hold him back?  Again, my apologies, it's just a kick I'm on. How can you not jump on board the "Linecum as closer" rumor.

by Kid Fresh on Dec 13, 2006 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Kelly's Heroes
Like baseball, many of life's lessons can be learned from Kelly's Heroes.  In today's lesson, I'd like to paraphrase a little exchanged from the turret of a Sherman tank:

"Have a little faith, Moriarity, have a little faith..." Oddball added, shaking his head at Moriarity's repeated negativity.  Oddball continued with a faint hint of disgust, "...always with the negative waves Moriarity, always with the negative waves."  -Oddball (D. Sutherland) to Morariaty (G. McCloud, aka Capt. Stubing [sp?]).

Ya gotta believe.

Go Giants 2007.

P.S. For a cookie (another Kelly's Heroes line) what's the next scene?  Hint:  It involves a bridge.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 1:46 PM PST reply actions  

Uhhh..
...that would be MacLeod, rather than Dennis Hopper's character.
Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 15, 2006 6:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Depends on you're definition of "contend." They'd have a chance, I suppose, but I definitely wouldn't call them favorites.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Dec 13, 2006 1:48 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I am just not a believer that either one of these bats are enough of a difference maker to bother with.  I think we are much better off spending our money on pitching.  I would much rather commit $17M a year to Zito then $14M a year to Burrell or Sexton and $3M to Wells.  
To me the difference between Zito and Wells is far bigger then the difference between Sexton or Burrell and Aurilia.

by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2006 2:36 PM PST reply actions  

finals
I didn't realize you were a student.  Where do you go to school and what are you studying?

by alon91 on Dec 13, 2006 2:39 PM PST reply actions  

Re: finals
Well this is certainly out of the blue, but yes I am a student. I didn't mention anything about finals, though, but I'm flattered you're so interested.

For what it's worth, anyway, I go to Cal and I'm studying English. Walking in Spring '07, baby. Thanks for asking.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
Blessed are the teachers who assign essays in lieu of final exams, and blessed are these assignments that were due Monday. I got mine done early and I have a nice break until after MLK day.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
Nope, Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
That's right... I got the wrong one of Doug Davis's alma maters.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 13, 2006 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
As a Diablo Valley University alumni, let me recommend a Kinder's balltip sandwich and pitcher of beer for lunch. It makes the afternoon classes more tolerable.

by mxmob33 on Dec 13, 2006 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
I take classes at night and online but I'll pass along the memo.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
Oh yeah, Kinder's balltip sandwiches are the best. There is a Kinder's here in downtown Chico, love it.

by sfgreg on Dec 13, 2006 10:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
Any time you can represent Cal, you go for it Howie.

I was Political Science '02.  I hope you walk at the Greek Theater like I got to.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 13, 2006 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
San Jose State, and I'm majoring in English: Career Writing. The "career writing" part was what sounded good to me...but I didn't realize that a huge chunk of my time would be spent reading Dante, Thoreau, and Shakespeare. Not something I necessarily hate, but not exactly my cup of tea, either.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 13, 2006 8:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
i'm reppin Cal Poly SLO, you know, the Harvard of the west as Krukow calls it.. I'm hopin Correia starts this year like he prolly deserves with the year he had last year, and reps us hard

by Azmanz on Dec 13, 2006 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: finals
I concur.
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Dec 14, 2006 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Have all of you taken leave of your senses? Didn't you watch essentially the same team suck big time in 2006? You really thing swapping Alou for Roberts and Schmidt for who-knows-what and everyone aging one more year is going to make this team more competitive? Do you really think that Feliz is going to stop flailing away at whatever slop is thrown up there? You really expect this mediocrity of a bullpen is all of a sudden going to start regularly getting batters out?

If the answer to all of these questions is yes, please send your resume to Brian Sabean & Peter Magowan as you qualify to work in the Giants front office.

The rest of know that this team will suck again in 2007 and for many years into the future because they've waited one more year to start the rebuilding.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 13, 2006 2:41 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
summons soul voice Ummmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Preach on Reverend.
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 13, 2006 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Don't think anyone out there really thinks its all that likely, but its possible. The Giants are not a hopeless team. Particularly if they actually do what Grant suggested in the post this is about.

Re: Delaying the rebuilding: What does that mean? Just playing Linden, Lewis, Frandsen, Ishikawa and whoever else and losing 120 games? I don't see how anything they've done this offseason has negatively impacted the future.

by hammystyle on Dec 13, 2006 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

People, People There is Plenty of Middle Ground
Why does everyone think a rebuilding means playing rookies?  It means a change in philosophy  - instead of stockpiling 35yr and older players you include some younger healthier players.  You procure them anyway possible - trades, Rule V draft, non-tenders and in Zito's or Matsuzaka's case thru FA or bid.  

Most people seem to think SF needs a slugging 1B.  People want Burrell or Sexson. Older players.  Expensive older players.  Why not any noise for LaRoche who is being shopped daily? He is a perfect way to get younger and healthier.

Why not give Frandsen an opportunity to earn a sport as long as you have a Plan B (Aurilia).  Linden seemed to progress and have the light finally go on for him.  Why not have him earn a spot for steady ABs and procure a Plan B OF.  A player who could possibly platoon with Linden if he continued to hit better from one side.

LOVE Lincecum but SF will make a mistake if it projects him to be in the starting rotation on openind day The City.  Lincecum is a player who should not be counted on so when he does arrive (whether opening day or midseason) he is a very pleasant surprise and the Giants will then have a surplus of pitching.  The same can be said for Sanchez as a starter.  Both pitchers will produce for SF but better to not count on them and then have them surprise and improve the club.

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
"You really thing swapping Alou for Roberts and Schmidt for who-knows-what and everyone aging one more year is going to make this team more competitive?"

Given Grant's question, it'd be more like Alou for Sexson/Burrell, which is not that big a drop off considering Alou only gave them 2/3 of a season last year.

The other swap is really Roberts for Finley, which should be a marked upgrade.

I think we're all counting on (or at least hoping for) the 2nd half version of 2006 of Bonds for 2007.

Finally, if they do get Sexson/Burrell, it makes them far less dependent on Feliz starting.  I'd dare say Richie A. would be an improvement over Feliz.

I've not takne leave of my senses. In fact, I've got 1,2,3,4,5...senses working over-time.

(Never seen an XTC reference here before...hooray for me!)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, Goofus...
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/comments/2006/2/10/1333/14229/29#29
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 13, 2006 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Sorry, Goofus...
Damn!  Good find.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 14, 2006 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
If you want to talk about fantasies, then yes, swapping Alou for Sexson/Burrell is about a push. In the real world, the Giants don't have a prayer of landing either of those players. The reality is that we are swapping Alou for Roberts and it really doesn't matter that we only got a partial season out of Alou because that's ll you're going to get out of Roberts also. For that matter, you're most likely only going to get a partial season out of Bonds and Durham also. So, where does that leave you? It means 400 ABs from Linden, Sweeney, & Frandsen. Hoo boy, that's going to be an offensive juggernaut!
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 13, 2006 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Did you even read Grant's post?  People are responding to the following:

"Instead, just a true/false comment starter:

If the Giants were to pick up either Pat Burrell or Richie Sexson without giving up Lowry, and the team signs David Wells for a one-year deal, I believe the Giants would contend in the West.

You can mix and match the names if you'd like, but true or false?"

It doesn't mean we all believe it's going to happen, we're just answering what we think it would mean...sheesh.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 13, 2006 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
XTC may have never been referenced here before, but as a Giant fan, haven't you doubted the existence of the supreme being just like they did in "Dear God??" Was Andy Partridge an SF Giant fan??

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 6:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Right now, the Giants can contend in the NL West, just because its the National west, where medicore teams have been known to look pretty good from time to time.

by alech on Dec 13, 2006 5:06 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
we're going to contend anyway, not because we deserve to but because the division, indeed the whole National League except the Mets, is just that weak.  If we were to get Burrell or Sexson, Wells, and keep Lowry, we would be the favorites (to the extent that such a thing is possible) in the NL West.
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 6:21 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Let's test your theory:

LA Rotation: Schmidt/Lowe/Penny/Wolf/Billingsley
SF Rotation: Cain/Lowry/Morris/Wells/Hennessey
Clear Advantage Dodgers

BullPen: Be Real - Clear Advantage Dodgers

LineUps:
Pierre vs Roberts (PA advantage Pierre)
Furcal vs Vizquel (SLG advantage Furcal)
Garciaparra vs Durham (even)
Kent vs Bonds (PAs vs OPS - even overall)
Gonzalez vs Sexton (advantage Sexton)
Either vs Winn (even at best)
Martin vs Molina (even at best)
Betemit vs Feliz (even at best)

So with the offenses basicly tied just how does the Giants inferior pitching rate being a favorite?

The Giants needs to accept slightly less offense then the Dodgers (going with Auilia instead of Sexton) but gain an advantage in starting pitching over the Dodgers by going with Zito instead of Hennessey.  Zito and Wells not only strengthen the rotation but the BullPen too with Sanchez and Hennessey moving from rotation to pen.

by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2006 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
irrelevant since we wont be getting sexson or burrell, but:

Cain=Schmidt
Wells>Wolf
Sanchez (and it will be him, not Henn)>>>Billingsley

Roberts>Pierre (look at the OBP)
Furcal=Vizquel+ a couple HR
Kent<<<<<<<<<<<Bonds

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Betemit v. Feliz
Wilson Betemit would have to (a) forget how to play baseball and then (b) purposefully injure himself before Pedro Feliz was even in his universe.

Giant Fans: Among those players getting more than 350 ABs, Pedro Feliz was one of the 5 worst players in baseball last year. Internalize this. Know it. Make it part of your inner being.

by dodgerfan on Dec 13, 2006 9:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Betemit v. Feliz
ass.

you may be completely right, but...

ass.

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Betemit v. Feliz
Damn, that's pretty good.  None of us knew that.  Really, Feliz sucks?  Check back with us in four years and let's see how that Juan Pierre deal has worked out for you.  

Flanders sure did a great job keeping J.D. Drew around.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Betemit v. Feliz
I thought you were supposed to swing at sliders in the dirt.
Sexson for Benitez. Make it happen.

by Punch Rockgroin on Dec 13, 2006 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Betemit v. Feliz
Look, dodgerfan, in general I don't care what you say here, but don't you ever... EVER... say a bad word about Pedro Feliz. Giants fans disagree about a lot of things, but there's one thing we can all agree on: we love Pedro Feliz. His productivity and his approach at the plate represent all that is good about baseball; hell... all that is good with the world, when you think about it. I was at all five 49er Super Bowl parades, but I have to tell you... none of them held a candle to the ticker-tape parade down Market Street last week when the Feliz contract was announced.

Your posts are clever, thought-provoking and not the least bit idiotic, dodgerfan, but, please... don't hit us where it hurts. Lay off Pedro Feliz.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 13, 2006 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm with Pants
Long Live Pedro Feliz! He makes us HAPPY!
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I'm with Pants
He makes our peters happy!

Wait...

Sexson for Benitez. Make it happen.

by Punch Rockgroin on Dec 13, 2006 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I'm with Pants
He makes me happy like Steve Garvey's hair and stupid smile used to make me happy.  He makes me happy like when the Dodgers traded that crappy pitcher named...what was it...oh yeah...Pedro Martinez.  (We complain about trading Liriano--who as great as he can be hasn't done really anything yet--how about THAT one?)

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 14, 2006 7:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
"Yeah Moe, the Giants sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" -- Homer Simpson in 2007

Sexson, Wells, what does it matter if they get another bat and arm or not? The 2007 San Francisco Giants just might be the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

Seventy-five wins? Whoo-hoo! Go 'Topes!

by sdsukat01 on Dec 13, 2006 8:50 PM PST reply actions  

Younger and Healthier?
Hey guys -

I've been away from baseball for a while: have the Giants followed through on their promise to get "younger and healthier" this offseason?

Let me know when you get a chance. Thanks.

by dodgerfan on Dec 13, 2006 9:06 PM PST reply actions  

Bleed Dodger Blue
Where have you been brother?  Too much fun, too many places to go?  LA is a happening place, lots of dollies and things to do.  Welcome back blue.

As we are learning, the phrase "younger and healthier" is a relative term.  A little younger and a little healthier.  How is Tommy and Ned?

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bleed Dodger Blue
How did the Giants get relatively younger? As far as I know, time moves forward at the same rate for all people on Earth - it doesn't slow down in the Bay Area. So, relative to whom did the Giants get younger? Let's list the positions where they got older:

1B (much older)
2B
3B
SS
LF
RF

They got slightly younger at catcher and went from ancient to just plain old in center. I haven't run the math but I think they are, in fact, older. Unless all the other teams in the league signed Steve Finley at once, I think it is safe to say that the Giants got relatively older.

by dodgerfan on Dec 13, 2006 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

The truth is out. Yes WE ARE OLD
maybe, just maybe we are healthier?  You did not tell me about Tommy and Ned.  How are they?  

Our best hope lies in our pitching staff.  Looking for a starter to round out the staff and hoping the cartload of young arms breaks thru.  Currently the Dodgers are better positioned than my beloved Giants.  Here's hoping to after 162 the Giants will be better.   Beat LA.  Did you say you are from Hollywood?

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

So...
Replacing a 40 year old Alou with a 35 year old Roberts is getting older?  Hmm wow..

In the field, yes the Giants are older.  But the pitching staff and the bench will be much younger.

13 years Vizcaino to Frandsen
15 years Finley to Linden

Those are the main drops in age.  The whole pitching staff will be younger, losing Fassero, most probably Worrell, with a lot of youngsters coming into the pen and even the rotation.  The Giants will be younger.

And for getting "much older" at first, if you call 4 years much older, then yes.

Seriously, I'm all for someone like you to come over here and argue their opinion, but at least respect us and try to do some research.  

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 13, 2006 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I admit
Ned is a joke and I'm ashamed that he's our GM. I'm ready to take my licks on that front.

by dodgerfan on Dec 13, 2006 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Younger and Healthier?
you're an ass as is everyone like you

fuck off

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Nick, please do not lower yourself to that level
You can represent your team and still take criticism.  

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Nick, please do not lower yourself to that lev
yeah but i dont need to take it from this little bastard. i dont troll the dodger board, he can fuck off.

note: if he were padrefan i would not be nearly as aggressive

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Shit disturber
I agree it's best to act like we have class, because on the whole we are a classy group. I am open to discussions with fans of disagreeable teams, provided they say insightful things and keep the conversation informative and relevant. I'll tell you, I have a few close friends who are Dodger fans and we somehow manage to co-exist. Why? Because we respect one another and value the opinion of the other side, and we get along. It's all good.

Dodgerfan hasn't done any of this. He's come in and said stupid shit to get us all riled up. He is not presenting debates in s constructive manner. He is acting like a classless idiot and no self-respecting Giants fan should take that shit from a Dodger fan.

I echo the "fuck off" sentiment for our little blue fiend, heartily.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 14, 2006 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Younger and Healthier?
Alright then. We played nice when the guy popped up, but let's not play this one note flute anymore. He's only here to link to these posts on a blue blog anyway to show his friends how he made a bunch of whiny Giants fans mad.

But also, I'm happy I got to call him a one note flute, because I've been saving that one up for the right time. So even though I would have rather not commented at all, at least I appeased myself a little.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Faaaaaalse.  Dodgers were better than the Giants last season, and improved more than the Giants did since then.  Cost/benefit ratio negative.

Sexson would be more fun to watch than the current crop, I just think investing so much into next season is nuts.  This team's obvious strength is young pitchers that aren't quite ready to dominate yet.  We should be looking at 2008, when Cain, Lincecum, Lowry is going to be a huge rotation.  All resources should be focused on this, and even short one year deals do nothing towards this goal.  Focus people, focus.

Caveat: Its easy for me to say, cause I got rid of my tickets a couple years back, and am not forced to pony up a couple grand to watch the rebuilding team I endorse.

by Stoned Slacker on Dec 13, 2006 9:17 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
how is replacing JD Drew with Juan Pierre "improving"?
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
i should add that i agree completely with your main point, that 07 is probably a wash and we should be focused on 08 and beyond, once we have lincecum and hopefully a bunch else to work with
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
i should add that i agree completely with your main point, that 07 is probably a wash and we should be focused on 08 and beyond, once we have lincecum and hopefully a bunch else to work with
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Yeah, there's a lot in the pipeline. The Neikro kid is ready to breakthrough any day now. And isn't JR Phillips almost ready?

by dodgerfan on Dec 13, 2006 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
kiss our collective ass
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 13, 2006 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
The fact that you've obviously been breech-loaded by a syphillitic orangutan, is no excuse for you to drizzle your mucus infested brain droppings here. That whole chromosomes of your being were left splattered against the wall of the crackhouse from whence you were conceived does not neccessarily grant you permission to squiggle your slimy ass-crack pearls of venereal affectated insight across the floor of these premises. As appropriately stated above--fuck off.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 14, 2006 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Everyone,
If Dodgerfan wants to be a  troll, lets not give him what he wants by reacting to his nonsense.   I suspect he might he actually provide some good lively discussion if he can just drop the taunting.  It's nice to hear the perpective of other team's fans.  Besides, I don't want to have to summon my unearthly powers and go all Kenshin on his ass.

Dodgerfan,
If you pick up on what goes on here, you'll see it's generally pretty intelligent baseball discussion, pop culture references and humorous banter.  Grat has created a cool little community where people don't stick out their chests and tell each other how much the other sucks. How about seeing if you can participate in the fun and enjoy the civility?  Thanks.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 14, 2006 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Baby Seals are to be clubbed. Until they die or go away.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 14, 2006 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Yeah, but they also took our best pitcher away from us.  Of course the Dodgers always liable to collapse no matter how much talent they have and writing the season off is also nuts.  But they and the D-Backs are bringing a bunch of good young players this year, much more than the Giants can muster at this point.

by Stoned Slacker on Dec 13, 2006 9:27 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Schmidt was our best pitcher for a couple of months early in the season. For the entire second half, Cain was much better.

by mxmob33 on Dec 14, 2006 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
I <3 LA.
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on Dec 14, 2006 12:14 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Son of Title
Just "who" and "what" are these DOdGerS everyone keeps referring to?
    It sounds like to me just another vastly over-paid, self-important, should be somebodies who will, yet again, fall woefully far below the mildly indifferent expatiations of the 4-8 inning crowd. Yes, Mr. and Miss socal  stick ball fan; Baseball,   as we like to call it, is a nine inning game. So to sum up: You will always "suck"(in the bad way)even if you win.
"In the Autumn of his Winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth".

by Ghost11 on Dec 14, 2006 9:06 AM PST reply actions  

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