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Around SBN: Doug Flutie's Hail Mary, And Why College Sports Matter

NOOOOOO

by llamalimbo1 on Dec 12, 2006 6:05 PM PST Comment 61 comments

The Pirates have not extended a formal contract to free-agent pitcher Jeff Suppan, but they have proposed a two-year deal and are among the handful of teams still in the running for his services. The Giants are thought to be front-runners. The field also includes the Astros and, possibly, the Mets.
-- Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: NOOOOOO

Dear god, no. I would have preferred 4/40 to Lilly as opposed to any Suppan deal.

by Aadik on Dec 12, 2006 6:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

suppan

I've been afraid of this guy, ever since I heard Sabean deferred some of the Bonds' money to help target pitching. I'd rather overpay Zito, but I'm not convinced he'll be worth the money either.

by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2006 6:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

The rumors keep heating up, so to stay calm I keep chanting this mantra from last week's Mercury News:

"Sabean held a meeting with the agent for Jeff Suppan, but a club source said the Giants don't believe the right-hander will be worth the price. They are looking for a top-of-the-rotation presence and grade Suppan's stuff below that of Matt Morris."

That club source was probably just projecting his own opinion (Anonymous Club Source For GM!), but the memory of this blurb was enough to keep me from screaming "NOOOOOO" when I saw the latest rumor.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 12, 2006 6:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Thanks dood. I needed to hear that.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 12, 2006 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Take it to the bank. Zito will turn the Giants down for the Mets, and then Jeff Suppan will start to look to the Giants what Salma Hayek looks like to me. The Giants will sign him for 4 years 48 million dollars. However, I don't know why you guys hate him so much. His big game history is terrific, and with the money saved from Zito, perhaps Sabean can go out and get a real first baseman like Richie Sexson or Pat Burrell. I would say Sexson, because he's being offered around the league and not Burrell, because Philly now wants to keep him because like the Giants they struck out on the major free agents. And with the much higher octane offense that the Giants will have with Sexson in the middle, I think Jeff Suppan will be a winner in San Francisco.

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Fuckbeans.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 12, 2006 6:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Two year deal?

If that's what it takes to top the Pirates, I'm all over that. There's no reason to think he'd sign for that, but he's a slightly above-average starter. I'd take him for 2/18 in a second. If the Giants stink, he'd be a pretty marketable piece in July, too.

by Grant on Dec 12, 2006 6:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Two year deal?

I'd even consider three years. Just not that wacky four- and five- year crap.

Suppan's best comp is Mark Gardner. That's gotta be worth something.

by Grant on Dec 12, 2006 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Two year deal?

That's how the Pirates got both Mike Gonzalez and Freddy Sanchez, by the way -- trading Jeff Suppan in a deadline deal. Man, I bet the Red Sox wish they had that one back.

/replying to your own posts FTW!

by Grant on Dec 12, 2006 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And now for a more eloquent comment

So, would the pitcher who made a political ad against stem cell research play in a liberal hotbed, and a town where stem cell research was vigorously approved?

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 12, 2006 6:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ah. I did forget he's a jackass, though.

by Grant on Dec 12, 2006 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

when was stem cell research illegal?

by wilriv21 on Dec 12, 2006 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: when was stem cell research illegal?

It's not illegal per se, but it's illegal to use federal funds for it. Since 90% of academic research funding is federal...

by zenbitz on Dec 13, 2006 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: And now for a more eloquent comment

It should be noted that the State's offices for stem cell research (you know, as created by that state prop) are across the street from the ballpark. Above Borders, maybe?

Listen to the broadcast on KSFO.

by Shane on Dec 12, 2006 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: And now for a more eloquent comment

Guess I shouldn't be surprised by any of those people. Caviezal played Jesus. Warner is a hardcore Christian. Heaton was on middle-America's favorite show of all time Everybody Loves Raymond (boring but not actually a bad show, it's just the target audience that really sucks). Suppan's a big jerk.

What's almost as fun as watching that ad (hearing Warner try to say Missourians is pretty funny) is reading the comments left below it. Of note are:

"im no longer a back to the future fan"

and

"This is great! This should be mandatory viewing in all public schools!"

Hot damn people are fools sometimes.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2006 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: And now for a more eloquent comment

Don't insult "Everybody Loves Raymond" on the day that Peter Boyle dies!! Ok, it was the most overrated show in the history of television, but Peter Boyle and Brad Garrett were great!!

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: And now for a more eloquent comment

Peter Boyle died??? Oh man, I really really liked him, too. Seriously. Never doubt my Peter Boyle man-love. How unfortunate.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2006 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

How many times can another team bail us out from a big-contract to a crummy player in one offseason? Here's hoping for one more.

Vote for Pedro...to be DFA'd!

by W8ingForATitle on Dec 12, 2006 7:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Where is the prevailing attitude that Suppan sucks coming from? Suppan is a good pitcher... I think he's better than Meche or Lilly. Since 1999, he's had an ERA+ over 100 every year but one and more than 200 IP 5 out of 8 years (and over 190 7 out of 8).

He's not a sexy name, but you could really do a whole lot worse this offseason.

LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Dec 12, 2006 7:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

I think you're about right. My personal view is that he's equivalent to Matt Morris (assuming the Sept 06 version of Morris is truly an aberration): average stuff (for a major league starter, that is), good competitive makeup.

The problem is that his performance in the playoffs last year seems likely to earn him a deal about the same as Morris's last year, which as we all know was too expensive and too long. Now if he could be had for $9 million a year for two years or less, Sabean could do worse. I still would prefer to overpay Zito, who is actually an above-average pitcher, but that's gonna require taking on a five-year-plus deal. So I'm a bit torn.

I just know this, even though the wise thing might be to just save the salary and take our lumps with the young starters, it isn't going to happen. This is in all likelihood Bonds' last year in SF, and Sabean is going to get another veteran starter. Let's just hope for the least possible long-term damage to the franchise.

by taliesin on Dec 12, 2006 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Deal or No Deal?

by wilriv21 on Dec 12, 2006 7:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Compared to the deals Lilly and Meche got, I think Suppan at $10-11 mil per would be a bargain. He's proven himself to be more durable and a better pitcher over his career, and he's only one year older than Lilly.

LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Dec 12, 2006 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a stathead but ...

He seems like a fine pitcher now, and if the Giants were a solid No. 3 starter away from the pennant next year, I'd be happy to have him around.

I don't, however, think he's worth a lengthy investment. His strikeout rate -- a good indicator of a pitcher's longterm outlook -- is around 4.5 per 9 innings, well below average. Suppan's ERAs are a tick above average, but not great. He pitches around 190 innings a year, which is OK but doesn't make him a workhorse.

Finally, all pitchers are volatile commodities, and I don't think Suppan is worth the risk four or five years out.

by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2006 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Jeff Suppan is Matt Morris without the tantalizing early success. They were teammates in 2004 and 2005, and pitched in decent pitchers' ballparks in 2006, so their situations over the past three years are pretty comparable. During those three years...

Opponents against Suppan: .272/.336/.432/.768, 1.54 G/F ratio, 5.16 K/9
Opponents against Morris: .270/.321/.441/.763, 1.50 G/F ratio, 5.45 K/9

They each have been pretty level in these categories as well... it's not like they have balanced out one great year with one awful one. Suppan was the same pitcher from 2001-2003 as well, making him about as consistent of a pitcher as you'll ever find:
.273/.329/.443/.772, 1.32 G/F ratio, 4.84 K/9

Morris, on the other hand, was much better:
.260/.312/.382/.694, 1.69 G/F ratio, 7.15 K/9

The chances of Morris becoming that pitcher again aren't great, but even the slightest hope makes him a better bet than Suppan, as he's proven that his down years are right in line with Suppan's average years.

What is "Matt Morris with a low ceiling" worth? I could live with 2/16, I guess, but 3/25 seems like a given at this point.

Either way, I'm starting to feel a little more optimistic about Morris at least.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 12, 2006 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Those numbers between Suppan and Morris are downright Eerie, and then you get to the last one, K rate, and it gets a little scary. Suppan's K rate, especially when it makes Morris' look so much nicer (even though it's not really a significant difference), is not my bag of tea.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2006 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Very good post, Pants. Morris also has a much better K/BB over the last three years, 2.48 to 1.67. Also a substantially better WHIP, 1.30 to 1.40.

But, for whatever reason, Suppan is better where it counts, allowing runs. Suppan has a 3 year 109 OPS+, while morris has a Morrisian 94 OPS+. Also, Suppan is 17-14/yr. in quality starts, Morris, 16-16. If I had to guess, I'd say that Morris is the headcase of the two. Allowing substantially more runs with arguably better stuff and the same OBP and SLG, means he's been giving in, in key situations. How sustainable is that?

Morris's runs allowed have been worse than his corresponding stats, Suppan's have been better. Suppan's advantage is keeping it together. But could Morris turn it around and be Suppan, with 18 quality starts and a 109 OPS+? Absolutely. Two Jeff Suppans/Matt Morris for $9 - $11 million each is an expensive rundency which is no way to building a winning team.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 13, 2006 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Yeah, it's tough to tell why that is. History would warn you not to overpay for someone who gives up less runs than they should, but it is human nature to be wary of the pitcher who gives up more runs than he should.

Suppan was tagged by leadoff hitters (.891 OPS) last season, but was much better with men on base (.710) or in scoring position (.696). He was disproportionately good with runners in scoring position in 2003, 2004, and 2005 as well... it's rare to see a pitcher have a run like that. Should he pitch out of the stretch all the time?

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 13, 2006 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

To Suppan's credit, he has a 8 year OPS+ of 107. Not only that, but he has averaged 32 starts and 204 IP during that span, which is almost Zito-like.

Suppan's WHIP, K, BB, OBP, SLG have been as steady as his extemely steady runs allowed. His standard deviation is tiny.

The fact that he has allowed less runs than he should over all of these years, makes it a skill.

His innings are shrinking a little, but they are still good. He should get a little worse over the years, but he's been consistently succesful with a similar K and K/BB rate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for signing him, for the reasons above, plus, Noah Lowry could easliy be this good, for 1/4 of the money. But you have to give it up for the guy. His performance history is ten times better than Lily, Meche and these other hacks getting all of this money.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 14, 2006 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

Relief pitchers often do, why not a starter. I coach little league and have all the kids (10 and 11 year olds) pitch out of the stretch; less moving parts and things to go wrong.

Interesting. Has "pitcher clutchiness" ever been studied?

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 14, 2006 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

I think there is such a thing, and Suppan exemplifies it. Likely, his concentration improves with men on base.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 14, 2006 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What do the Statheads think of Suppan?

The stathead in me says that Suppan is ok, but I worry about his K rate. That low K rate is ok when you have St Louis's defense behind you. We don't have St Louis's defense.

The totally biased non-stathead side of me says that he is a Jesus Freak Douchebag a la Russ Ortiz, and I don't want him anywhere near San Francisco.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 13, 2006 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

I think it would be great if Souppan could lead all the Giants in a rousing round of "That little stem cell could be your next child" He really should be a Rockie.

"In the Autumn of his Winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth".

by Ghost11 on Dec 12, 2006 7:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

If he loves stem cells, then "Soup" will love "Until There's a Cure Day". Maybe he'll turn his ribbon sideways to form a Jesus fish, a la Mark Dewey.

cue: theme from "The Natural"

by VidaWantsYourCar on Dec 12, 2006 8:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Oh dear I hadn't thought of Until There's a Cure Day. is it wrong to be amused thinking of the possible enormous hissy fit to be pitched on his part?

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 12, 2006 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon SF can't be THAT liberal

by wilriv21 on Dec 12, 2006 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: C'mon SF can't be THAT liberal

You obviously have never lived there. :)

by hometownboy on Dec 12, 2006 9:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Management could just tell him it's all about a cure for stem cell research.

cue: theme from "The Natural"

by VidaWantsYourCar on Dec 12, 2006 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

He can also turn his back in protest when the cast of Beach Blanket Babylon sings the National Anthem.

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Dec 12, 2006 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Sorta bugs me when lefties complain about righties exercising their freedom of speech.

I guess it's got to be the right kind of free speech.

by vizqueltofrandsentoniekro on Dec 12, 2006 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

by wilriv21 on Dec 12, 2006 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

To "complain about" the content of the speech is different from saying that someone should not be allowed to say the thing. Yes, there have been occasions when lefties tried to suppress righties, but it more often seems the case that right-wingnuts attempt to suppress lefty speech, or at least there have been more high profile instances of righties attempting to suppress lefties.

Carlos Delgado doesn't want to be on the field for the US national anthem? Denounced. Folks want him tarred and feathered. ESPN runs features about it.
Todd Jones makes anti-homosexual remarks to a newspaper, however, and the MSM treats it as just another drop in the barrell.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David Arnott on Dec 12, 2006 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bravo, David. Well said.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Dec 13, 2006 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Jeez , Mark Grace does all he can to help - and sound like an evolved individual in the process - and misses by a mile.
"Fear" that someone would find someone else attractive...there's no physical line crossed , where's the harm of a kept opinion?

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 15, 2006 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

don't think anyone's complaining about him speaking, just making fun of him for what he said. that's pretty american.

by keithr on Dec 12, 2006 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, that's absurd & cheap

When someone weighs into the public market of ideas with an opinion, that opinion becomes fair game-- and if the person advancing it is high enough profile and doing it for, oh I don't know, a POLITICAL CAMPAIGN (which is the very heart of free speech), then that person also becomes fair game (silliness, nobility, hypocrisy, consistency, etc.) There is not a single word on this board that is suggesting that his freedom to speak should be curtailed or that the Missouri ad should have been prevented or anything at all suppressant. Not a word; not a syllable suggesting any such thing.

I am not suggesting that you are deliberately perpetrating this, as I don't know you at all, but it is a very common trick of the American right wing to say something like "well, free speech for you but not for anyone who disagrees with you, eh?" whenever someone from the left criticizes something advanced from the right. That is a logical fallacy, and a cheap one. It's changing the subject. NOBODY is saying any such thing. When people advance an opinion in the public marketplace, free speech means that it can be attacked, just no suppressed.

Sheesh. What IS your definition of free speech? People have the right to state their opinions AND have them never be criticized or attacked? Nonsense.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Dec 13, 2006 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sorry, that's absurd & cheap

I know something about the hypocrisy of certain people on the Left with regard to free speech, having seen it in action many times at Cal. Berkeley is probably the world capital of shouting down the free speech of the Right. You know, tens, hundreds, or thousands of people shouting so the conservative can't actually be heard. It is lame.

No one here is suggesting that. We just think Suppan is a total douche.

Very nice post, Mayor.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 13, 2006 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sorry, that's absurd &amp; cheap

I second that observation about Berkeley and about Cal students. Don't get me started.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 13, 2006 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Suppan has Sabean written all over him

Suppan is the kind of pitcher Sabean dreams about - a vet who logs lots of innings and is playoff experienced. If he is offered 2/18 he just might stay in St Louie because Cards still looking for pitching. Probably would take a Morris deal to get him to pitch for SF.

by wilriv21 on Dec 12, 2006 9:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Suppan has Sabean written all over him

For what it's worth, ESPN reported that the Cards offered Suppan 3 years/$18 million early in the free agency season, and they haven't budged from that number. It doesn't seem the Cards are trying very hard to keep him.

by hometownboy on Dec 12, 2006 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Pretty obvious the Cards know something

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2006 10:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

You think? I think he's worth 3/$18M. Unfortunately, in this market, he and his agent are probably right that he can get more. If he could be had for 2/$18M, I hate to say it but it wouldn't be that bad of a deal. I'm on record as preferring to do nothing on the starting pitcher front, at least until we have a real first baseman, but it isn't going to happen. Sabean is going to sign a starter, most likely for too long and too much money.

I do have to wonder, though, if a bible-thumper like Suppan would really want to come to SF. It seems like a poor fit culturally. Do players have enough interaction in the city they play in that it makes a difference to them whether they play in Tampa or NYC?

by taliesin on Dec 12, 2006 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

SF county and the counties immediately bordering the ocean are way liberal. One has to go east to find pockets of conservatism. If Suppan did sign here and he really sees SF as the new Sodom and Gomorrah he could always flee to a "family friendly" suburb. Heck, Concord is available. I work right across the street from an old abandonded theatre that says CONCORD: WHERE FAMILIES COME FIRST on the marquee.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 13, 2006 6:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

For 18 million bucks he could buy a really nice house in a gated community like Blackhawk (95% white, 60% Republican). Although he'd still have to deal with the fact that his new Congressman is a Democrat.

You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Dec 13, 2006 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

ya, i always wonder about free agent pitchers whose team doesn't really try to re-sign them. wouldn't they know him best?

by keithr on Dec 12, 2006 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

You're right. If its only about money, then okay I guess. But if the exiting team passes...you should do the same in most cases.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Dec 13, 2006 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

So the Dodgers shouldn't have signed Schmidt because we passed? I guess we shouldn't have any interest in Zito since the A's are passing. How do you know that St. Louis' reasons for "passing" aren't all about the dollars? Heck, ain't it obvious that our reason's for passing on Schmidt are not all about the dollars if we are persueing Zito?

The Giants need to draw their own conclusions about a player's value and not limit themselves to the judgements of other teams and thus doom themselves to never finding a "relative" gem that others have passed on.

by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2006 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants scouts LOVE Zito

Giants scouts are said to view Zito as a potentially dominant pitcher in the National League

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/16182681.htm

by wilriv21 on Dec 13, 2006 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Now, E isn't saying ALL free agent transactions have that M.O., but a lot of them do. The Schmidt situation was a unique one, and should be considered an exception to E's "rule". It was unique in that it's been kind of obvious that Schmidt did not want to return. The Giants could have thrown him more than 3/47, and he would have passed. Another signal should be that he went to the Dodgers of all teams. He's a "sensitive" guy, and he knows exactly what the "consequences" of such a move would be. He basically said: "F U SF".

It could be argued that Zito's situation is entirely about the money. If it weren't, why would he have switched agents? He wants to be paid while he still has the leverage on the rest of the world.

Suppan, on the other hand, falls into what E describes. The Cardnals, of all teams, would be willing to spend money on someone if they actually wanted to keep them. The Cards went after Springer and Wells, signing the both of them to a total of 6+M/yr. That's not that far off from anything that Suppan will receive, which I think will be around 9M/yr. Why go after two middling (arguably below-average) pitchers if you could have had someone who is "better" at only 3M/yr more? Sabean and the Giants should be wary about Suppan. Giving him any contract beyond two years is risky and detrimental to the already minimal work toward a better future for the club.

by sfgfan on Dec 13, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Unless you're Arizona.

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 15, 2006 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

getting a sense of deja vu here. We all said the same thing last year about Matt Morris. The Cardinals turned out to be right too. They saved their money and only won the World Series!! How come they don't let Chris Carpenter come over here??

by rxmeister on Dec 14, 2006 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: NOOOOOO

Because a couple of ex - Athletics run the show , and in their hearts they harbor a small but perfect flame of hatred for us?

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 15, 2006 5:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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