...with a spoon
Upon hearing the rumor that Gagne might sign with the Giants, I had the same two reactions a lot of you had:
- Ew. No. No no no no no. Even if he were just around for one year, he'd leave a stench of Dodger in the clubhouse. It's a stench (burning human flesh and Old Spice) that doesn't just wash out with a little bleach. And all of that for a guy that's thrown ten innings or so in the past two seasons? No.
- Of course, it would cheese off Dodger fans. Revenge isn't the best way to build a club, but it would be sweet to tag Jason Schmidt for six runs and bring in Gagne to close a game against the Dodgers. Signing Gagne would also make those stupid "Game Over" shirts disappear from Dodger Stadium. If I had Mark Cuban money, I'd probably pay $6M just for that alone.
- Gagne stinks or doesn't pitch. The Giants are out $6M.
- Gagne pitches well, and the Giants contend. The Giants have a good reliever for a somewhat reasonable salary.
- Gagne pitches well, and the Giants fall out of the race before the deadline. The Giants have a sweet, brand-name bargaining chip -- one that could even fetch a young position player ready to start.
The unwritten scenario is obviously what's going to happen: Gagne pitches well enough, the rest of the team plays well enough, the Giants go into August three games back and proceed to lose seventeen straight. Gagne blows all seventeen games during the stretch. No deadline deals are made. That sounds about right.
Ignore the unwritten scenario for a second. The only reason to be against the move is #1, but even that can fall under the "it ain't my money" category. The real question is whether or not that $6M can be better applied somewhere else. Would a Gagne signing prevent taking on Richie Sexson's contract in a salary dump trade? Then forget it. Is Gagne the difference between getting the best available player with the bevy of draft picks, and going cheap and picking seven fourth-rounders in the first two rounds and paying them third-round money? Once you figure out what that sentence is supposed to mean, you'll want to forget the Gagne idea.
I don't think Gagne would have an effect on any of it. The Giants have already decided if they're going cheap in the draft or not. If the Giants get a chance to nab Sexson for a signed Kevin Mitchell 8 x 10, they'll do it. It wouldn't prevent them from signing Barry Zito -- it might just make them backload the contract a little more. The idea of "just put the $6M into scouting!" is cute, and maybe if one of us amateurs ran a team it'd be a valid argument for not signing Gagne, but there is absolutely no way the Giants would do that.
Both sides are there, but I think the ayes have it. Unless Gagne's salary prevents another improvement to the roster, either in the short-term or with the drafting strategy, he makes sense. It ain't my money. Just picture the "ker-thonk" of Eric Gagne bobbleheads hitting the trash in Southern California; the "flaffafaffa-curumple" of Gagne posters being torn from the wall; and the, uh, "unworn noise" of those stupid "Game Over" shirts not being worn. Then picture the Giants flipping Gagne for a starter at first for 2008. It's worth a shot.
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Re: ...with a spoon
And by the way, how many draft picks do we have?? I know we lost some for Roberts, and Aurilla.
Re: ...with a spoon
The conflict rises.
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Re: ...with a spoon
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Seriously, though, if one of these teams gets him it will have saved the Giants from yet another awful offseason move.
The only value Gagne would have to this team is as a deadline trading piece, and I don't judge his actual value as a player at this point to be high enough to put six million dollars into it and enough of my hatred behind it to make the thing even close to worth it. One and a half million, and we'll talk. Two is pushing it.
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Re: ...with a spoon
Gagne also earned my respect a few years ago when he talked openly about struggling with an eating disorder -- something that's especially tough for a professional athlete, or any man really, to talk about. I have family experience with this sort of thing, and I think it takes a lot of courage for him to talk openly about it. I hope he's played some small role in getting other people to come forward, which is the first step in getting treatment, of course.
As for the possibility of signing him, I don't have a problem with it at all. You can't go wrong with a one-year contract. Even if he's terrible and/or hurt, it's only a short-term problem. And if he's good, you've either got a closer for your contending team or a trade chip.
Re: ...with a spoon
Re: ...with a spoon
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
It's a bad gamble. The Giants are going to need that $6 million to sign all their higher draft picks this year. Just say no, Sabean.
Re: ...with a spoon
As for the draft picks, it's hard for us to evaluate that as outsiders. It's not clear how much money the Giants have left to spend, if anything, or whether they've already set aside enough of a budget for the draft.
His health isn't clear either, but I'm willing to cut Tidrow and company some slack on that issue if they've reviewed recent scouting reports or medical files.
Risk vs Reward
In the last two seasons he has only pitched 15 innings and you want to toss 6m at him? At least give him a ball and a mound and let him workout out for you before the physical. However, if he reverts to form you got a top shelf closer.
And as far as using him as a trading chip, Sabean would just as soon trade him for an older closer than a younger, healthier talented player. C'mon fellas, Sabean trades youth for vets - not vets for youth.
Re: Risk vs Reward
by Stoned Slacker on Dec 11, 2006 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Risk vs Reward
Hey. I like that. I think you may have a whole new cottage industry of stats and so forth.
JAOPS
JAOBP
JABA
JABB
JAHBP
JARS
JAHR
JARBI
JAERA
JAK/9
JAK/BB
JAAB
JAPA
JAVORP
JAOPS+
JAW-L
JASB
JACS
"The Juice Adjusted Baseball Abstract"
"Juice-Adjusted Money Ball"
"Show Me The Juice-Adjusted Money"
"Your Juice Adjusted San Francisco Giants"
"The Juice Adjusted Natural"
"The 2007 Juice Adjusted All-Star Game"
"Juice Adjusted--Can You Hear Me Now"
"With Juice Adjusted Techron"
by E Ticket on Dec 11, 2006 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Hypothetical scenario
So my question is...should those people be simply ejected from the park, or beaten up and then ejected?
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
Re: Hypothetical scenario
No...? Dammit. These fans should be openly and enthusiatstically recognized as assholes, and then ejected. No violence, people. It's not the R.E.M. way.
Er... Giants way.
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by E Ticket on Dec 11, 2006 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Hypothetical scenario
Some things are sacred
Re: Hypothetical scenario
by David A. Arnott on Dec 11, 2006 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
... with a pitchfork
Anybody But Mando.
This includes Gagne, Thigh, Nathan, Lance Niekro, or Matt Herges (OK ... maybe not exactly Herges).
A! B! M! (Like Beat LA!)
Re: ... with a pitchfork
Accurately describes my feelings about any of these guys outside of Nathan closing games for the Giants.
by howtheyscored on Dec 11, 2006 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Scott Boras must have pictures of Tom Hicks in a compromising position. If there is a bidding war for a player, Boras can always count on Hicks to go all-in with a gut-shot straight showing.
by lunaticfringe1 on Dec 11, 2006 10:14 AM PST reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Foulke + Riske + O. Perez > Gagne.
Better yet, sign Zito & Wells for the rotation, allowing Hennessey & Sanchez to thrive in relief.
Dark horse bullpen candidate = Tim Linecum.
While the Giants usually man-handle rooks, if Tim the Enchanter is "lights out" this spring, don't see how the Giants hold him back, with all the holes in the bullpen and rotation.
Bottom line is- Giants need pitching help in the worst way. How about all of the above?
Re: ...with a spoon
by Shawn Estes for President on Dec 11, 2006 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
Re: ...with a spoon
Re: ...with a spoon
by E Ticket on Dec 11, 2006 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Remember, we still are probably going to be able to unload half of Benitez's salary if we trade him to the Marlins, or all of it if hes traded to the Phillies.
Lincecum as a close for 1 year wouldn't be that bad...if the rotation is set. The problem is that it won't be, and he would be more valuable as a starter next year.
by April3rdLifeBegins on Dec 11, 2006 12:30 PM PST reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
The Marlins only take Benitez if we pay the entire salary. The Phillies would have taken it all if we had given up a prospect and taken all of Burrell's salary. That deal is dead.
Re: ...with a spoon
I believe if we start a whispering campaign that he is an Al Qaeda operative, secretly meeting with Castro's secret police, we could get him banned from the US, added to the FBIs Most Wanted List, and therefore void his contract.
by E Ticket on Dec 11, 2006 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
Re: ...with a spoon
I see no indication that Sabean has ever sought a big bat for first base, Hindenberg notwithstanding.
Lots of L. Fringers are chapped we never signed Vlad. I'm chapped we never signed/traded for Delgado.
Sabean seems to have a different philosophy about what you look for in a first baseman than I do.
Strange coincidence
Re: Strange coincidence
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 11, 2006 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
A Passion for Tatonka
Re: ...with a spoon
If Boras wants 6 million guaranteed for Eric Gagne, let some other sucker take the bait. We'll make do with 'Mando and hope that Sadler, B. Wilson, or even Tim the Slim can assert themselves. Sign Riske, poke around the waiver wire...good relief pitching is almost impossible to predict, and that means that good relief pitchers can be found all over the place. It's tricky, and there's no guarantee you'll succeed, but it's out there.
A note to those of you expressing interest in Keith FOulke. Puh-leez. (Rhymes with Feliz.) Love the guy for what he did in 2004, love him as an ex-Giants farmhand...but how is he not a bigger question mark than Gagne? Injury problems, confidence problems, ineffectiveness problems, and the fact that he's a one-pitch pitcher...pass.
by candymanhackman on Dec 11, 2006 6:52 PM PST reply actions
Tim The Slim - that is a good nickname
Re: ...with a spoon
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 12, 2006 8:15 AM PST reply actions
Re: ...with a spoon
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 12, 2006 8:52 AM PST up reply actions

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