The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
When there isn't a whole heckuva lot of obvious news, I'll do my best to try and find some. If those searches come up empty, I'll read some of the general Giants forums at sfgiants.com, espn.com, or sportsline.com, and hope someone has posted a link to an article I may have missed.
We're in a little bit of a bubble at this site, and while there are a huge range of different opinions, there are some sentiments that are widely shared here. The Giants don't get Pierre for $578B/14 years? Good. The Giants don't give part ownership to Gary Matthews, Jr. or Carlos Lee? Good. Those players weren't going to be the difference between a poor team and a playoff team, so there's no reason to overpay them now. The Giants have some young pitchers that will hopefully develop into the foundation of a strong team. When the young pitchers start coming through is the time to go goofy with the free agents, signing contracts that help in the short-term at the risk of messing up the long-term payroll situation. There are different variations on that theme, but most of the folks here seem to agree.
Step into the wider audience, though, and you'll get a whole lot of this:
And then some guy comes over from the Dodger board, dropping one of these:
I find this kind of chatter most entertaining when I think of the author actually laughing out loud every time he or she writes "lol".
But the first example is the important one, and it wasn't isolated to one particular board or poster. Every Giants forum for a wider audience has a huge and impressive "DO SOMETHING NOW, SABEAN!"-faction. Those are the people that make up a majority. Those are the people that buy the tickets. It doesn't matter that the free agent market is an unfunny joke; the DO SOMETHING NOW-faction doesn't care that the best remaining player on the market is something like Jose Guillen. The crowd is growing restless. It's understandable in a way. I'd like to buy fifteen minutes of airtime on a major network, sit down with some pie charts and a laser pointer, and explain exactly how the Giants are damned-if-they-do/damned-if-they-don't trying to rebuild a roster this offseason. My agent isn't optimistic about the chances of that option, though. There are going to be a whole bunch of Giants fans who will grow more restless with each day of inactivity.
Because of this, I'd almost guarantee Jonathan Sanchez will be traded. I have no idea for whom, but I can only hope it's someone worthwhile. You just know it's not, though. Sanchez will be traded for a name -- a Richie Sexson or Garrett Anderson-type. Some unbelievable contracts will be signed; Jose Guillen for four years, just to take a guess at one. Jeff Suppan for $9M per, for another. And the team will be a little better off in the present, and much worse off in the future. If I had any modicum of faith in Brian Sabean, it was lost when I heard that the Giants offered a similar contract to Gary Matthews, Jr. than the one he received. This organization is desperate, and the fallout is going to be a mess. There are franchises willing to be patient; this isn't one of them.
I'm scared. Hold me.
Comment starter: Here's where you tell me how I'm wrong. Right?
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Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
He said it so snotty, I wish I had the audio embedded in this post. This is the mindset of the offseason. I'm not against trading Sanchez for the right player...but I have completely lost faith in Sabean's ability to find the right player. This is going to get worse before it gets better.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Shucks. Wish I could help
Could Get Ugly
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
The rest of the free agents out there .... Fehhh!
Barry :L. Bonds, and a few more Wands....
Barry is now the only chance for Sabean to assemble something of even marginal interest for fans in 2007.
Bonds, of course, knows this. His only condition (besides his own salary terms) for signing will be for Peter Magowan to whip himself publicly at 24 Willie Mays Plaza...
Re: Barry :L. Bonds, and a few more Wands....
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
And by the way, Grant you're right
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
"Pittsburgh is looking for left-handed power and has Rockies RF Brad Hawpe on its wish list. The Pirates, however, are hesitant to give up any young starting pitcher other than Paul Maholm, and the Rockies would want a quality starting pitcher, and maybe a bit more, to trade Hawpe's power potential."
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5166733,00.html
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Brad-Hawpe.shtml
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/L/Todd-Linden.shtml
Yes, I know Hawpe has hit in the bigs while Linden hasn't, but (a) he's had Coors Field on his side, and (b) he got a fair shot, which Linden still hasn't.
So, no.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
That said, if not Brad Hawpe then how about Mark Teahen of KC?
by giantsrainman on Nov 24, 2006 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Nothing wrong with having them both, but if we're talking about trading Sanchez, I think we need a promising young starter more than another corner outfielder.
Teahen would be awesome (though I'd be a little worried last year was a fluke), but I imagine he's in pretty high demand around the league.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
OPS
Home-.822
Road-.966
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by GiantJim on Nov 24, 2006 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Let's not overestimate what the rest of the league sees in Sanchez. Just because he's our most attractive (trading) prospect right now doesn't mean he's a goldmine. "Quality starting pitcher" sounds a lot more like Lowry territory (especially with Lowry's contract), because Noah's been around a few years and has built an actual solid resume. As for Sanchez, he had a lot of success out of the bullpen last year, but struggled like hell more often than not in his few starts. Sounds more like a quality bullpen arm, possible project starter for other teams. Now, I think Sanchez is going to be great (granted, I thought that about Ron Dayne, too), but based on what he's done so far, I really he think he would be the "maybe a bit more" part in a deal like this.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2006 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Sanchez shows way toooooooo much presence. As a matter of fact, I say he is closer to Cy Young material than he is to a Damien Moss. By how much I do not know. He could be right smack in the middle or about 75/25 positive at this point.
Under the right manager, I look for him to be stellar. As a matter of fact, next to Cain, he is my favorite Giant pitcher to watch. Also, Santana and Liriano, aside, Lefties generally take longer to develop. I don't know why that is so I blame Coriolis force.
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Our Cy Young Lefty down the Crapper?
A bad thing, apparently, for you lefties. But a good thing, I attest, for most of us right-thinking Americans.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
- Sabean has been making noises for a while about how "speed" is going to be much more important in the game. This is dumb, but it helps explain why he's actually interested in players like Pierre and Matthews. Instead, he'll sign Dave Roberts to a bad-but-not-ridiculous contract. Once that itch is scratched, he'll come to his senses and work on locating actual baseball players.
- Sabean is arrogant enough, and has enough job security, that he probably doesn't care much about what the fans think.
- If there is pressure on him to land a marketable star, the failure to do so thus far means it's more likely that BLB will be back.
- If BLB departs, and maybe even if he doesn't, the obvious marketing approach for next year's team would be to focus on the young guns. So he's not going to trade Sanchez.
- If he does trade Sanchez, then Sanchez probably isn't going to pan out. Despite the exception that leaps immediately to all of our minds, Sabean has a very good track record when it comes to trading young pitchers.
- It may just be dumb luck, but most of the real disastro free agent mistakes have now been made by other teams. The only ones left are Zito, Schmidt, and maybe Gil Meche, and the Giants are giving no signs of pursuing a pitcher.
- Tim Lincecum! Angel Villalona! We're not dumping draft picks! The Giants have apparently hit upon the crazed strategy of developing young players!! Who woulda thunk?
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Perhaps this is the offseason where, from Sabean's perspective, it's better to be lucky than good. Maybe his fall-back plans will be smarter than his initial strategy.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by Ghost11 on Nov 24, 2006 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by GiantJim on Nov 24, 2006 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Hangover Turkey and a Turkey Hanger-on
Re: Hangover Turkey and a Turkey Hanger-on
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...

Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by theclap on Nov 24, 2006 8:36 PM PST reply actions
Are the Giants just Fine, or just Brine?
Applause for TheClap. A continuing Boo for The Blew...Nitez.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Maybe Sabean is searching desperately for answers
And he is facing by far his greatest challenge in 10 years at the helm.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
I just hope the team doesn't trade it's strength of young pitching away at this point.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
I've totally rethunk my position on Bochy. Not that he is that great. But that Alou was that bad, especially when it came to the pitching staff. If the pitchers pitch as they can and improve the way we think they should, it will be a fun year.
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Draft Picks
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 25, 2006 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Draft Picks
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 9:54 AM PST reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
As a replacement for Durham...yick.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 25, 2006 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Other than Soriano, nobody in the FA market this year even comes close to being that kind of impact playert...not within a hundred miles.
Trading a Jonathan Sanchez would piss me off as much as the trade than shall not be mentioned. Actually it would piss me off more since Sabaen's memory should be pretty fresh from that fiasco. Anybody who has seen young pitching before just has to be impressed with Sanchez. I have no idea what his stats were, but I saw him pitch a number of times last season. When he was lights out, and also when he got shoved around a bit.
Assuming he is healthy, I like him better than Noah and almost as much as Cain. I can almost see him surpassing Cain or at least equaling him in terms of ability to dominate opponents. I was that impressed with his mound presence, his delivery/mechanics/motion and sheer refusal to show anything other than complete disdain for opposing batters. Incredible. I do not think if you were to ask other teams if they liked to hit against Sanchez whether one would get much in the way of Amens.
Now unless Sabaen knows something deep dark and dirty about this kid that nobody else does, I don't see him as being traded.
by E Ticket on Nov 25, 2006 10:29 AM PST reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
You couldn't say those things about Hennessey, and yet he got nearly 100 IP last year. Trade him while he has any value!
I would like to add that sending Felipe on his way can only have positive effects on the pitching. Any positive effects that Bochy brings will only be a bonus on top of eliminating Crazy Phil's pitching problems.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
AT&T sponsors a Beach Boy Slobber-Bib Night
But he's also got two essentials -- he spits and he surfs.
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
"I don't like to spend a lot of time on the draft. It's a crapshoot anyways, so in a way it's a waste of time."
If he did actually say this, it was a stupid remark, and the reason that the Giants have one of the weakest farm systems in Baseball for position players.
Hopefully, he has learned the error of his ways.
THIS IS A WEAK FREE-AGENT MARKET.
There will be many "Type B" Free Agents, i.e. TROT NIXON, RICH AURILIA, PRESTON WILSON, JOSE GUILLEN, GREG ZAUN, TED LILLY, GIL MECHE and several others who will perform better than many "Type A" Free Agents
The GIANTS have a UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY this year to build up their farm system quickly. Here's a brief primer on FREE AGENCY 101:
Teams that lose a Type A free agent are compensated with two draft picks. Teams that lose a Type B free agent get one pick in return.
It's interesting because it's an exploitable area. If you're a low-budget team looking to build your organization through the draft and player development, losing the right guys (overvalued, Type A free agents) can pay dividends. Similarly, signing the right low-level (Type-B/No-Comp) undervalued FAs, (you lose one pick for signing a Type B, is certainly low-risk, and might be high-return if you're lucky.
Keep in mind, nearly all these comped picks are within the first two rounds,(with the exception of the FIRST 15 PICKS being protected). That's before solid-looking prospects like Jonathan Papelbon, Elijah Dukes, or Ricky Nolasco are getting picked...they are slots where you're essentially getting instant top-20 prospects within your organization.
The GIANTS FREE AGENTS are as follows:
BONDS Type A
DURHAM Type A
ALOU Type A
SCHMIDT Type A
FELIZ Type B
HILLENBRAND Type B
STANTON Type B
STEVE FINLEY N/C
TODD GREENE N/C
STEVE KLINE N/C
JAMEY WRIGHT N/C
For a small investment, the GIANTS could field the following team in 2007:
ROBERTS CF
VIZQUEL SS
BONDS LF
BURRELL (via TRADE)
AURILIA 3B
LINDEN RF
ZAUN/ALFONSO C
FRANDSEN 2B
SIGN LILLY OR MECHE
THIS WOULD BE A DECENT LINEUP, and let's not forget that we're playing in the worst division in Baseball, where playing .500 ball actually gives you a shot at winning.
We would LOSE 6 PICKS for ROBERTS, AURILIA, ZAUN
LILLY/MECHE
and GAIN 9 PICKS for ALOU,DURHAM,SCHMIDT,FELIZ,HILLENBRAND,STANTON
for A NET GAIN OF 3 PICKS IN THE FIRST TWO ROUNDS OF THE DRAFT.
By taking this approach, we would SAVE MONEY, still have all of our good young pitching and an additional 3 HIGH DRAFT PICKS, all of which could be used for trades and/or THE BETTER FREE AGENT GROUP NEXT YEAR.
IT'S TIME TO BUILD FOR THE FUTURE, not get caught up in spending ridiculous amounts of money for mediocre, over-prices players.
by maysman on Nov 25, 2006 11:01 AM PST reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
Anyway, a belated Happy Thanksgiving to all.
by NearestNorwich on Nov 25, 2006 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
If the player signed away from the original team before the Arb deadline, then the team offers arbitration anyway. Of course, the player refuses because he already has a new contract and team. So the Giants would get the pick(s).
If the team offers arbitration before the deadline and the player still signs with another team, then the Giants get the pick(s).
If the team doesn't offer arbitration before the deadline, and then the player signs with another team, then it is too late to offer arb, and thus no picks.
Also, if the team offers arb and the player accepts, then the arbitration is binding and the player cannot sign with another team even if he is unhappy with the award.
Cool?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
The keys:
- Team must offer arbitration before deadline (even if player has already signed with another team before arb was offered)
- Player must sign with another team
3) Profit with draft picks
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
About the NL West...
The NL Central was much, much, much worse than the NL West last year, the NL East was actually comparable (the Mets ran away with it, but the other four teams match up pretty evenly), and the AL was ridiculously good in general.
by howtheyscored on Nov 25, 2006 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
by victor frankenstein on Nov 25, 2006 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Re: The Anger of a Turkey Hangover...
I think the team as previously constituted could have done that, though, with the natural young pitching improvement. I sure didn't anticipate the Great 2006 Pitching Meltdown (non-Mando division), did you?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 25, 2006 1:22 PM PST reply actions

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