Rangers fan with a question.
Over at the rangers site, I suggested trading Young for Cain. I completely made the deal up, and everyone is saying how stupid and bad the deal would be for the Rangers. So I was just wondering what yall would think if this deal happened.
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48 comments
Comments
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by CandyMaldonado on Nov 13, 2006 5:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by scotterduder on Nov 13, 2006 5:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
not a bad idea
by wjackalope on Nov 13, 2006 5:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
"Young for Matt Cain?!? I wouldn't trade Young for Johan Santana. Sorry, but this trade would rank amongst the worst in the history of the game."
by Fog City Blues on Nov 13, 2006 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
Gif away if you must, Dougie.
by Pants Man on Nov 13, 2006 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IMHO
While a great hitter and good defender at 2B, I understand Young to be well below average defender at SS.
If the Giants were one big bat away the World Series, then it would me a fair trade and one the Giants should consider if they had a replacement for Cain. BUT, they aren't close and Cain is a potential ace that will contribute for the years to come. [assuming he is healthy]. It's easy to forget how young Cain really is - he was 21 for the entire season and he still has room to improve.
As a player, Cain's flyball tendecies [near worst in baseball] might not play very well in Arlington, but his high strikeout rate would help mitigate that. He does seem to get a lot of pop-ups.
Why do you think SF would want to make the trade?
by irwin on Nov 13, 2006 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
by wilriv21 on Nov 13, 2006 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
I'm not disagreeing, but I can't think of one player I'd trade Cain for straight up, (or 2 for 1) that would make sense to me.
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 13, 2006 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
- Albert Pujols
- Johan Santana
- Vladimir Guerrero
- Ichiro Suzuki
- In any multi-player deal that would make the Giants better not only today but in future
by wilriv21 on Nov 13, 2006 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
Honestly i wouldnt trade him for anyone except pujols
by nick on Nov 13, 2006 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
by wilriv21 on Nov 13, 2006 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
by JakeS on Nov 13, 2006 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
by Lyle on Nov 14, 2006 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
by Roger on Nov 14, 2006 5:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In the RIGHT deal Cain can be had
- Probably not
- Probably not
- No
- No
by lyricalkiller on Nov 14, 2006 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
Cain was dominant for a 2-3 month stretch last year and was a beacon of hope for the future on a sad, old team. He's younger and will be under a team's control for another five years or so, but you always have to worry about injuries with a young pitcher. I'm sure most Ranger fans have loved watching Young play every day, and the guy can rake (858 hits over the last four years? wow), but there would be some concern about how well he would do in a more pitcher-friendly home ballpark.
by Pants Man on Nov 13, 2006 5:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by madyp on Nov 13, 2006 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by Pants Man on Nov 13, 2006 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
I think Young would stay a .300+ hitter anywhere.
by madyp on Nov 13, 2006 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by Pants Man on Nov 13, 2006 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by madyp on Nov 13, 2006 5:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by madyp on Nov 13, 2006 5:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
I think it's a good bet though.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 13, 2006 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by howtheyscored on Nov 13, 2006 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 13, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
I can see where Ranger fans would be against the deal.
by Sinister Dick on Nov 13, 2006 5:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by madyp on Nov 13, 2006 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 13, 2006 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by madyp on Nov 14, 2006 5:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
I'm guessing from your reply that if you had Willis or Santana, you would not trade them for Young. That's my point, that there are starting pitchers who are worth more than a good offensive SS, but this poster says that any trade of a pitcher for a starting player like Young is a good trade. I'm saying it's not.
Young is good but he's not elite pitcher good, particularly given his age, contract situation, and his home park.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 14, 2006 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by xanthan on Nov 13, 2006 5:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by NearestNorwich on Nov 13, 2006 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
Anyway, I wouldn't want to trade him, not just because he is good and getting better, but because I really enjoy watching him pitch and he seems like such a good kid.
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 13, 2006 6:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
To have Lincecum coming up at the same time is incredible, plus Lowry has been pretty good too, in his short time up, so to me, to even think about trading any of the three without upgrading the rotation at the same time would be crazy.
The Giants future is based solely and squarely on the shoulders of our pitching rotation, we must nurture and develop them, and hopefully soon the cream will rise and whatever sloughs off, like Hennessey and Correia, will make good relief pitchers or good trade bait to get position players.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 13, 2006 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
That being said, Cain wouldn't be a good fit for the Rangers. Y'all pitch in a homer happy park and Cain gives up a lot of deep fly balls, so you wouldn't get the same value out of him that the Giants would since last year AT&T was the hardest yard in MLB to hit dingers out of.
Wow, people over at your site said it'd be a rip off. Makes me wonder how GM's ever manage to make any trades if we are so partisan about our own players.
by orangeandblackattack on Nov 13, 2006 10:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by howtheyscored on Nov 13, 2006 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by MeSoKrabby on Nov 14, 2006 7:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
In addition, pitcher's park in your division affects that as well, and as we all know, Colorado has sudden swung from one of the most extreme offensive to a more fairer park over the past couple of years, which makes our home park appear to be more offensive minded than pitcher friendly, based on how park factors are calculated. Plus, the addition of the Padres new park, which is much more of a pitcher's park than the park before, that also made the Giants home park more offensive than pitching.
While Fleming's analysis has gotten much much better this season, I don't think he's at the point yet where he can discern how talent level corresponds to how the park plays.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 14, 2006 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair and Balanced Reporting
But I'm not mean enough. Somebody wake up E and piss him off.
by Moggeee on Nov 14, 2006 2:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This trade is ridiculous
05 -24 (per 150)
04 -28
03 -15 (as a 2B)
02 +5 (as a 2B)
Unfortunately I don't have the 2006 numbers but I doubt they're impressive! Young is in all likelihood a worse defensive shortstop than Derek Jeter. I'm going to put him -16 this year on defense, just to be generous - that's 10 runs better than his established performance as a shortstop.
Young had 46.0 VORP this year. Include defense, and that puts him 30.0 above replacement. Vizquel had a 28.0 VORP this year, and was +12 on defense, so that makes him 40.0 runs above replacement. As 10 runs ~ 1 win, that makes Vizquel a full win better than Young as a player. And that's being generous to Young. Young, like Vizquel, is under contract for one more year (and at a similar salary).
I wouldn't even think about trading a stud like Matt Cain for a resolutely ordinary player like Michael Young. I wouldn't trade Noah Lowry for Michael Young. I wouldn't play Michael Young at shortstop, and I'd play Kevin Frandsen at second base ahead of Michael Young. Michael Young would be a below-average third baseman. And so on.
Michael fricking Young???
by Salemicus on Nov 14, 2006 4:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: This trade is ridiculous
by madyp on Nov 14, 2006 5:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: This trade is ridiculous
by Pants Man on Nov 14, 2006 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: This trade is ridiculous
by Evan on Nov 14, 2006 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
In general, Texas and San Francisco would seem to be logical trade partners; you mostly need pitching and we mostly need hitters. However, you've caught us at a time when our cupboard is pretty bare, so I don't think we match up well.
By itself, I wouldn't do the Young/Cain trade, for the reasons NearestNorwich and others mentioned: Cain's youth versus his cost.
What would you give us for a Noah Lowry and a year's supply of garlic fries?
by Lyle on Nov 14, 2006 7:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by CandyMaldonado on Nov 14, 2006 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
What would it take to get him and is he available?
by madyp on Nov 14, 2006 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rangers fan with a question.
by oldjacket on Nov 14, 2006 8:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Arlington in Summer: Fresno with Humidity
But this is all an exercise in nonsense. Cain is not going to Texas.
by Moggeee on Nov 14, 2006 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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