Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
Yes. I love the Chronicle. First they freak us out, then they print this:
The Giants have spent more time discussing a new contract for Pedro Feliz than any of their other potential free agents, but no deal is imminent and the club could explore other options at third base, team sources say.
Feliz poses an interesting dilemma for the Giants. On one hand, he led the team with 98 RBIs in 2006, played above-average defense for most of the year and was durable. He wants to return, and if the Giants sign him quickly, they will have one of many open positions filled.
On the other hand, some in the organization have grown weary of Feliz's lack of plate patience and dreadful situational hitting. There are alternatives on the free-agent market, including a potential star in Aramis Ramirez.
Uh. Ramirez please. Thank you.
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43 comments
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Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
About 50 cents.
Using your expensive cell-phone minutes to call Aramis Ramirez's agent and arrange a time and place to discuss a contract?
About $10.
Signing Aramis Ramirez and having him play for you in 2007?
About $18,000,000.
Knowing that Aramis Ramirez is playing 3B and hitting cleanup for your San Francisco Giants?
Priceless.
by Lyle on Nov 1, 2006 7:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Nov 1, 2006 7:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by Pants Man on Nov 1, 2006 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Nov 1, 2006 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A whoosh followed by a swoosh
by Moggeee on Nov 1, 2006 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
P.S. Sabes, please sign Ramirez. :D
by jponry on Nov 1, 2006 7:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez? I'm Afraid Not
Negotiating Patter is all it is.
by Moggeee on Nov 1, 2006 8:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by Andy In Fresno on Nov 1, 2006 9:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by E Ticket on Nov 1, 2006 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A name you can trust
by Moggeee on Nov 1, 2006 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A name you can trust
by redhornet78 on Nov 1, 2006 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Andy
by wilriv21 on Nov 1, 2006 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I agree with Andy
And if you give him a three-year contract, what's your leverage for enforcing the rule that he must be receptive to anything?
by Evan on Nov 1, 2006 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I agree with Andy
The guy will be 32 in April and has been the same crappy hitter since he made the bigs. What's going to make him change now? Certainly not a fat contract.
by leftymalo on Nov 1, 2006 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I agree with Andy
by wilriv21 on Nov 1, 2006 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we're signing Feliz
Next season, we're going to field a team filled with guys who overchieved during contract years (Winn, Matthews, Feliz, Durham), aging veterans (Gonzo) and cheap young guys (Linden, Lewis, Niekro). And it won't be pretty.
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 1, 2006 11:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: we're signing Feliz
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Nov 1, 2006 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: we're signing Feliz
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 1, 2006 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: we're signing Feliz
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Nov 1, 2006 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
SS Vizquel
2B Durham
LF Gonzo
RF Winn
3B Feliz
1B Niekro
C Alphonszo
My god, that is a 100 loss line-up if I've ever seen it.
by Kid Fresh on Nov 1, 2006 12:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by Poe on Nov 1, 2006 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
Unless, of course, it is.
by Pants Man on Nov 1, 2006 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by SF Pete on Nov 1, 2006 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
Although come to think of it, Luis Gonzalez has the arm of a first baseman...
by Pants Man on Nov 1, 2006 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really
by irwin on Nov 1, 2006 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Really
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 1, 2006 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by Sayhey on Nov 1, 2006 12:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
A discount from what?
Feliz is terrible. He hurts the team every time he comes to the plate. Spending any more than the major league minimum on that kind of player is folly.
by Evan on Nov 1, 2006 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 1, 2006 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
by Sayhey on Nov 1, 2006 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
If you measure things by the single most important stat, on-base average, he's not just the worst, he's deeply, hilariously, hopelessly the worst.
His fielding, no matter how good it is, can't come close to making up for the runs he gives up at the plate.
by Evan on Nov 1, 2006 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
As well, while I trust few defensive stats, I would submit Feliz is far better defensively than any of the three. So, what you gain with walks, you lose with home runs and the glove. Now, if Ramirez is really available or a trade can be made for Rodriquez, Wright, Chavez, or any of the other much superior bats that also give power and defense, then by all means let's get one of them. I don't believe any are really available, so in that light Feliz looks to be a good short term solution.
by Sayhey on Nov 1, 2006 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
I mentioned Graffanino and Bell and Punto not because they're good but because they're not. They're bottom of the barrel. They're the bargain basement guys, the ones you can get for a one-year, two-million dollar contract -- and every one of them puts more runs on the scoreboard than Pedro Feliz.
by Evan on Nov 1, 2006 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Among the League Leaders
by Moggeee on Nov 1, 2006 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
by Sayhey on Nov 1, 2006 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
This just isn't true, sayhey. The 22 qualifying third basemen last year (including slap hitters like Bell, Graffanino, Sanchez and Punto) averaged one home run every 25.6 at bats... just about what Pedro has done over his career (25.7). And it's not like he's been improving... that number was 28.5 for Pedro in 2005 and 27.4 in 2006, when he ranked 13th out of these 22 players. In short, he can hit the ball over the fence with the average of them at his position.
AT&T generally plays fair to righties, but he has hit for more power on the road in his career, hitting a home run every 22.1 at-bats, so you can give him a little boost for his home park. Home run power is certainly not a weakness in Pedro's game, but it's not a particular strength either.
by Pants Man on Nov 1, 2006 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An Arc into the Night
It doesn't come that often, I suppose, but when he lays into the right pitch, Pedro's magnificent shots are only surpassed in recent Giants right-handed history by Matt,* the Cat*, and Ellis Burks.
(Williams and Gallaraga.)
by Moggeee on Nov 1, 2006 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
Your stats on home run ratio are the same as the ones I quoted above, so we have no argument about them. I do like the fact you take into the fact AT&T effects on number of home runs. Most don't when evaluating Pedro's numbers.
What I'd ask is how many of the third baseman who have better home runs to ABs ratios are available as free agents? How many are likely candidates for trades? If they also have good gloves, I'm all for getting them over signing Feliz, but that looks like it isn't going to happen.
Really what I'm saying is, if one is going to consider signing another player for the position other than Pedro, his strengths as well as his much discussed weaknesses need to be considered instead of knee jerk bad mouthing of a player. A fair judgment of his strengths include both his home runs (the same number as Chavez and Rolen, and a better ratio than Lowell, Tracy, Zimmerman, and Blalock) and his excellent glove.
by Sayhey on Nov 2, 2006 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
You can't look at a guy and say he has two pluses (power, defense) and 1 minus (getting on base) and grade him out to a plus.
Each of these components to his play (on-base, power, defense, not to mention defensive flexibility and base running) matter to different extents are they are interelated.
Compared to an average ML 3B Fleas gives up lots and lots and lots of outs at the plate. He has decent power (not sure where he ranks in ISO, which is SLG-AVG), so that's gives back some. All the combined metrics take this into account - VORP, RC, EQA - OPS mentioned here does to, but actually underrates OBP. (1.2xOBP+SLG is better).
By all these offensive measures, Fleas costs the Giants with his bat.
Now, he does give SOME back with the glove. Maybe even enough to get him up to mediocre... as long as he continues to be the best fielding 3B in the league.
But if you fill your lineup with mediocre guys and pay them like veteran starters, you are going to have a mediocre team.
by zenbitz on Nov 2, 2006 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: A discount from what?
I think his subtraction will instantly add 5 wins to the team!
by johngalt on Nov 1, 2006 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by Poe on Nov 1, 2006 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by W8ingForATitle on Nov 1, 2006 5:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ugh. Feliz. Ewwww Part Deux
by sfgreg on Nov 1, 2006 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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