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Bochy

I can understand a lack of enthusiasm with Bruce Bochy. He's about as exciting as Warriors preseason basketball on the radio. Trust me on that one, as that's how I avoided listening to Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. But the end of the world? Absolutely not. Did you see some of the other names being thrown around? Tony Pena. Jerry Manuel. Bob Brenly. Those are all managers who would bring a Scrabble dictionary into a game of Battleship, and who don't have the experience or zip to make you hope they'd make up for any strategical shortcomings. Those would be train wrecks. Lou Pinella? In what world would that have made sense?

Really, in the 6,201 games I've seen Bochy manage against the Giants, I haven't noticed him. That's a great sign. I think. If he were a total goof, I'd hope I would have noticed. Batting Brian Giles eighth, or putting Russell Branyan at short; stuff like that would probably grab my attention. Without that kind of obvious lunacy, it's hard to get too excited one way or the other. Here's an important point, though: Padres fans are actually caring. There's a sizable faction expressing regret that Bochy is leaving, and most are wishing him well. If there's one person who thought it was a good idea to have Felipe Alou back for another season, they're still waiting for the right moment to come out. When Dusty Baker left, there was a similar case of synchronized shrugging. It has to say something about a long-time manager when he isn't openly mocked by a fanbase after a decade in the same town. He's almost universally popular among his former players, too.

The most important thing for the Giants to have considered was how the new manager was going to handle young pitching, as that's about the only thing the Giants have going for the future. The Padres club Bochy took over in '95 had a good young core of Alan Benes, Joey Hamilton, and Andy Ashby. They weren't abused, and went on to careers of varying success. The Padres have had some top young pitching prospects under Bochy's watch. Jake Peavy became one of the best pitchers in the game. Dennis Tankersley wants to know if you'd be interested in refinancing your mortgage, because he has some super rates. Praising or blaming Bochy for one or the other would be silly.

But it's a huge plus that he's not an arm shredder. A team hoping to develop Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, and Jonathan Sanchez has to be wary of a chaw-munching old skewwwl manager ready with the red pansy stamp for any pitcher who dares to report a shoulder twinge. Jake Peavy has never thrown over 130 pitches for any start in his career, and has thrown over 120 just four times. Part of that is Peavy being so efficient, and another part is that Bochy's had some great bullpens. Still, that's an impressive display of workload consideration. Compare that with Dusty Baker allowing Mark Prior to average 127 pitches in the last month of Prior's first full major league season. On this basis alone, Bochy would be a defendable choice.

There are certainly a bunch of red flags. One of the disagreements Bochy had with Kevin Towers this year had to do with Vinny Castilla. Towers didn't want Castilla to play so much. Bochy expressed his Platonic man-love for Castilla. Castilla was released. That Bochy wanted to stick with Castilla was bad, but it wasn't as if the Padres were holding back a young George Brett. Still, that's a veteran-first philosophy that could use some tempering in the new Giant era. And every manager is going to have his way of driving the hardcore crowd up the wall. Dex, from the great Gas Lamp Ball, had this to say:

Everybody loves Bochy for the fact that he's a career Padre. He handles veterans well. Guys like Rickey Henderson, David Wells, Kevin Brown have all talked about how great the clubhouse is under Bochy.

Unfortunately, he also does some really crazy things. The same way that Alou has a fixation with pitching changes late in the game, Bochy will never allow a right handed hitter to face a left handed pitcher and vice versa. The most damning example was the game where he played third string catcher Miguel Ojeda in right field over Xavier Nady because of the matchup consideration.

That'll get old real quick. But if that's the most damning piece of evidence, I'll take it. A hiring of Bud Black, Manny Acta, or even Ron Wotus would have had some freshness with it. There would have been an excitement that stemmed from a mixture of optimism and the unknown. However, just picking a fresh name out of the hat wouldn't have been guaranteed to provide the spark the Giants are looking for. The unknown isn't always preferable. That girl behind the counter in that cafe in Paris with the tousled hair and the mischievous grin, staring at you from behind a magazine; that's a good unknown. The moment after agreeing to make love to a cactus for five minutes in order to win $100 bet in a Tijuana cantina; that's a bad unknown. Black, Acta, Wotus, Joe Girardi, or Ron Washington all could have landed from Paris to cactus on the unknown spectrum. Bochy was probably the safest choice of the bunch, and there's something to be said for that, both for and against. I can't say I'm all that excited about Bochy, but the Giants could have done much, much worse.

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Re: Bochy
god...using what friars fans say as meaning anything....only friar fans could have put up with the clap trap they get from their tv and radio announcing crews for the past years...wanna know why? cuz a more uneducated bunch, there aint

my god...those same idiots got ripped off mightely for a downtown stadium with poor lines of sight and dimensions that made it a park that no fa wanted to come and play in.

kevin towers has trashed their farm system worse than sabean has done to ours

bochy has been a part of their org for many years, so of course they are gonna miss him....hes like a part of their family...but please, dont use their opinions as meaning anything

what about bochy pitching around a hacking pete to get to lazer??

and my god, the last thing i want to hear is how he works with vets

if bochy is gonna be your man, why spend the past few months talking about a change in org philosophy???

its all horseshite grant...big steaming wads of horseshite  

by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2006 12:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
and let me add that wotus is not an unknown...you dont win minor league manager of the year for sticking your thumb in your ass....

i believe that fans woulda been patient with a wotus, wash or an acta...they will not be patient with a bochy, and the org knows it...which means it back to the win now bullshit

fuck....im gonna die before this team gets it right and wins a ws

by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2006 12:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Former winners of Baseball America's Minor League Manager of the Year award:

Grady Little
Buck Showalter
Kevin Kennedy

It means about as much as a Gold Glove, and is just as easy to take out of context. I really have no idea how Wotus would have managed.

And I seriously, seriously doubt the Giants were going to go into rebuilding mode with one manager and win-now with another. This isn't a organizational roster to rebuild with. This is a team that needs to get some offense -- young, old, animal, plant, mineral, whatever -- and build around its young pitching. They were never going to go with a Linden/Lewis/Schierholtz outfield, nor should they have.

by Grant on Oct 27, 2006 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
That's fine, but Bacci's gonna die.

by Moggeee on Oct 27, 2006 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
so in other words...this is an organization in such a state of flux, that it didnt matter who they hired..as long as he would be a good babysitter to young pitchers

that instills me with great confidence

fire sabean  

by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2006 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
dude, go poop already.

by keithr on Oct 27, 2006 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I'll refrain from nominating Bochy to the hall of fame, but perhaps it is the fact I'm over 50 that I actually have respect for experience and success. Bochy has both, and if it doesn't guarantee him further success in a Giants uniform, neither does the lack of any managerial record serve as a recommendation for other candidates.

Bochy is not some explosive nut alá Pinella, Bowa, or Billy Martin. He gets along with his players and seems to motivate them to do well. Beyond what I certainly thought the Padres teams he has managed should have done. He is a known quantity that - and here is the big if - if he is given enough talent to work with will keep the Giants in competition.

I'm not going to throw a celebration for his hiring, but neither are I going to slit my wrists as it seem others in some of these Bochy threads are on the verge of doing.

Good post, Grant. I'm always appreciative of a little sanity when discussing the Giants.

yob

by Sayhey on Oct 27, 2006 1:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
what success??? a sweep out at the hands of the yanks?

winning the division in the past two years through a war of attrition?

they brought on bochy cuz they are bringing back bonds, and now no one can make fun of the size of bonds head, cuz bochy's noggin is twice the size

manager bobblehead  

by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2006 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Yes, he got swept at the hands of the Yankee team that won like 115 games.
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Oct 27, 2006 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't try this at the ARCO
I, too, neither celebrate, nor slit my wrists.

But I can't help lobbing around cannisters of gasoline.

by Moggeee on Oct 27, 2006 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don't try this at the ARCO
Very appropriate for the 50th anniversary of the Hungarian uprising. The origin of Molotov cocktails, for the younger audience.
yob

by Sayhey on Oct 27, 2006 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don't try this at the ARCO
The origin of Molotov cocktails is during the USSR invasion of Finland at the beginning of WWII.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Oct 27, 2006 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don't try this at the ARCO
Damn, I have to start looking up my obscure historical references before I use them in sarcastic responses. Thanks, North Side, I learned something new today.
yob

by Sayhey on Oct 27, 2006 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Don't try this at the ARCO
Goodness, gracious, you're a wealth of information. Still doesn't top the orgin of "can of corn".
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

History's Mysteries
Cannisters of gasoline were also kept on the higher shelves, but few grocers lived after trying to catch them in their aprons, until the Finns perfected the art.

by Moggeee on Oct 28, 2006 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
btw...wanna tell me why the org hired a manager whose two best seasons were as the result of having at least 2 steroid laden freaks on the roster???

by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2006 1:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Does this mean we'll be bringing back Bobby Estalella?
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2006 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Don't forget Armando Rios!
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 27, 2006 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
¡Mios Rios!
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2006 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
but LaRussa is still managing St. Louis?
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Oct 27, 2006 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
What I took most from Grant's post (besides his delightful prose style) is the fact that Bochy hasn't really stood out as a manager, which means he isn't prone to idiotic blunders a la Brenly.  That's a good sign.

If Sabean gives him a decent team, I'm sure he'll be fine.  It may be important to keep the Steve Finleys and Vinny Castillas of the world off the team though.  There are a lot of managers who would fall into that trap.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Oct 27, 2006 6:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
YAWN
Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on Oct 27, 2006 6:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Grant, in reading what you wrote about Bochy, I was reminded of the unkind description "you know, for a fat girl she doesn't sweat much." I am totally underwhelmed by the (alleged) signing of Bochy to be our manager. I've got to agree with Bacci on this one; this seems like a step in the wrong direction. Of course, I could easily be wrong. And none of us has been in his clubhouse and seen him up close and in action. He may be a great communicator (which I think is the number one job of any leader), he may be able to quote the infield fly rule verbatim from memory, he may rescue wandering children near home plate - who knows?

But many of us (some of us?) were hoping Sabean would seize this opportunity to emphasize a new organizational direction, and he has clearly (allegedly) not done that. There may yet be a new direction and long-term outlook, but this doesn't signal that and arguably signals just the opposite.

Bruce Bochy: you know, for a large-headed guy, he doesn't lose much.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle on Oct 27, 2006 6:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I think Sabean has taken the Giants in a new direction with this hire. The direction of not overusing the pitching staff. I think we can all agree that the worst thing that could happen would be for our young starters' arms to fall off. I agree that Bochy isn't an especially exciting hire, but I fail to see how hiring an unproven manager on Sabean's short list would have been better.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Oct 27, 2006 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
That is one plus for Bochy, he does not allow his pitchers to go beyond 120 pitches that often, plus is prone to the quick hook and don't do the slow hook much, all relative to other managers.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I agree with that philosphy and mentioned that a couple of weeks ago, when the Bochy rumors first surfaced.

But why can't the Giants just be like the A"s (and probably other organizations)?  Pitch count and use of relievers should an orgnizational dictum.  Why do you have to pay and old school player's manager $2.5 million to do this?  Macha did a very good job of handling his pitchers, particuarly his relievers, for $650,000.

Acta, Wotus, Black, etc.. couldn't do the same?  As they say, it ain't rocket science.

I havn't noticed a brillant handling of young pitchers during Bochy's regime, however I give him a lot of credit for their bullpen's success, something I think that you can attribute (at least somewhat) to the manager.  Although, I also thought Dusty always did a good job with the bullpen.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
The more I think about it, Bruce Bochy is the Shea Hillenbrand of managers.  Which was why this hire was so predictable.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I don't understand all the hand wringing over the Bochy selection, and I really don't understand why fans of this team want to go into rebuilding mode. It would be one thing if this team was overflowing with prospects, but rebuilding with the Giants means Todd Linden, Jason Ellison, Lance Niekro and 100 losses. We just saw a team win the World Series that won 83 games this year!! You don't think Sabean can find that out there even in a weak free agent market?? Bochy is a smart manager, players love him, and free agents will consider the manager a plus when they consider signing with the Giants. Players play hard for him, and his teams bounce back after tough losses. (see the Dodger 4 homer explosion for example)This Giant team died after Benitez blew that Sunday game, ironically against Bochy's Padres. Bruce Bochy was the right choice for this team. Fans may have wanted to see a more exciting choice that got them fired up at the press conference, but does that really make for a good manager??

by rxmeister on Oct 28, 2006 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players Manager
My gut tells me a player likes to play for managers that have GMs that will give them the most money.

by wilriv21 on Oct 28, 2006 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Players Manager
Your gut has become far too cynical if you don't think who the manager is factors into free agent signings.
yob

by Sayhey on Oct 28, 2006 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Players Manager
tell me where and how? list either numerically, alphabetically or by player preference and EACH and EVERY time money will be listed ahead of players manager.  It can be a factor amongst many other factors but nowhere does a player say "Where is Bochy managing today?  Agent call the Giants, I want to play for Brucie."

by wilriv21 on Oct 28, 2006 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Players Manager
I believe I said it factors in the decision, not that it is the only factor or that it always trumps money. Read Sweeney's remarks about having Bochy as a manager and I think you will agree it is not all money. Your post above implies it doesn't matter who the manager is as long as the money is right. That is cynical.
yob

by Sayhey on Oct 28, 2006 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Sweeney is the kind of FA Bochy attracts
then I will be extremely disappointed.  Yes I do agree with you when a players weighs all the factors before signing a manager he enjoys playing for would be a pro/plus.

by wilriv21 on Oct 28, 2006 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Boring, boring, boring move. It does not upset me very much, but does nothing at all to excite me in the least.

Let's all hope that the Padres roster construction during the playoffs was dictated by the upper management and not by Bochy, otherwise we've got a case of "IloveVerteranitis" once again...

My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Oct 27, 2006 6:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Er. "Iloveveteranitis". Spelling made up words is hard.
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Oct 27, 2006 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Eh, I just think its a waste of funds. This should be a rebuilding team; instead, Sabean will probably try and go all out for 75 wins again.

by Aadik on Oct 27, 2006 7:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Absolutely, in the same way that the worst part of the Hillenbrand trade was the $2+ million it added to last season's payroll, for a non-difference maker.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Melon?
Is this the end of the world?  No, of course it isn't and thank God we didn't sign Piniella.  It's just (as I've noted) the completely safe choice and a boring one at that.

However, I'm not impressed by this signing at all and I don't like what it represents to us fans.  A new direction?  Where?  Veteran savvy?  Whatever that means.  Great, so he gets along with veterans.  If getting along with people is a noted plus for a manager and we're praising Bochy for it, we're in a shit sandwich.  A manager's SUPPOSED to get along with his players!

I agree with Grant that Bochy's a neutral hire and he's mixed his young players with his established players on the field fairly well.  But, I don't give him too much credit for happening to have one of the game's great young pitchers (Peavy) and for this player having performed well.  

As I've noted, I really wanted a new direction and would've been willing to risk Acta or Black.  Might they fail?  Sure, but I'm willing to risk some failure for the overall success and rejuvenation of the franchise vs. three years of mediocrity followed by us revisiting this same topic in 2009.  Do I foresee Bochy as the breaking point of success vs. mediocrity?  No, he's just the manager.  But I see this signing by Magowan and Sabean as evidence that neither are willing to take a calculated risk (players, manager, style-of-play) to improve the franchise as others around us are adapting (Dodgers' or Rockies' youth/DiamondBacks' farm system).  I don't want more of the same for the foreseeable future.

I don't blame Bochy for wanting to manage the Giants.  It'd be a great job and that would be silly.  I do, however, blame Magowan and Sabean for selecting Bochy so quickly that it gives me the impression that they wanted him all along, that they never intended to start in a new direction post-Bonds, or that they wanted to inspire us.  In fact, if I dare say, I believe that at some point the fan base is going to rise up against Magowan.  The hiring of Bochy isn't going to ruffle too many feathers because he's just so...plain.  But, our ownership meddling and tinkering with veterans and bullshit claims of "win-right-now" are placing the stability of the franchise in a precarious spot.  As the NL West is getting younger and more dynamic, the Giants are opting for, oh hell here I go..."staying the course."

...and how is THAT going to excite me as a fan?

by Kent on Oct 27, 2006 7:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Melon?
Well, Bochy is about 20 years younger than Felipe, so the team is getting younger.  :^)

Seriously, according to one account, Wotus is Magowan's favorite but he was leaving the hire entirely in Sabean's hands, so Magowan apparently wants it known that this is all on Sabean if it doesn't work.

And it is too soon to speculate what this means about the "youth movement".  Sabean said that the team will get younger as they rely on their prospects more and fill in other roster spots with veteran players.  He has actually been making the team younger the past two seasons, as a significant percentage of the 25 man roster, particularly the pitching staff, is now made up of products of the farm system (and that isn't including the players obtained with products of the farm system).  I suggest waiting to see how he constructs the roster before we start slinging the accusations.

That said, I'm still disappointed by this move, but will move on as, unless stuff comes out like the Wally Backman case, he's going to be our manager for the next 3 seasons.  As Grant nicely put it, it isn't the worse thing in the world, which is like one of my friend's saying, "it's better than a stick in the eye!"  I think it says volumes that he hasn't stuck out - for good or bad - as a manager.  

And why give us all the crap about how he's going to talk with candidates who don't have MLB managerial experience, if he then goes out and says that, at the end of the day, experience was the most important factor in his selection.  If so, say so, don't lead us on thinking that Acta, Wotus, or Black had some chance:  they were just backup in case no experienced manager took an interest in our team that Sabean liked.  But the way he phrased it - and he is like a libel lawyer in the care he takes in phrasing his responses - it implied that the inexperienced would be equally considered.  Well, they were not if experience won the day again.

But he's here and we'll just have to make the best of it.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
The Nady thing is weird, but the Castilla issue and the way it played out, leads me to believe that there was some posturing going on. Towers was going to waive Castilla, Bochy is trying to keep his clubhouse intact and positive, so there's this good cop / bad cop thing between the manager and GM.  In the end, Bochy plays to type and shows his boys that he's their guy, while Tower makes the tough decision. Remember, they are also both trying to figure out what their roles were with Alderson in the house.

by esfads on Oct 27, 2006 7:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
This is all I need to know.  Really.  This is no different than Crazy Phil's addiction to sleepwalking back and forth between the mound and the dugout starting in the 6th inning as Grant quoted above:
"Unfortunately, he also does some really crazy things. The same way that Alou has a fixation with pitching changes late in the game, Bochy will never allow a right handed hitter to face a left handed pitcher and vice versa. The most damning example was the game where he played third string catcher Miguel Ojeda in right field over Xavier Nady because of the matchup consideration."

Fucking fucked-up, fuck-face, tard-fucked so-called strategist managers with this retardomatic addiction to L-R matchups.  

This fucking deal has Magowan's, not Sabaen's, handprints all over it. It just reeks of Little Richie-Petey's mindset of going with over the hill nipple swingers with name recognition.  

Don't be surprised when the Giants sign Vinnie Castilla to be the 2007 version of El Dopo.  

I can just hear/see it now oozing from Magowan's piehole:  

"Dave Roberts and Vinnie Castilla will bring savvy veteran presence to our younger, healthier, faster, roster, and give us good bench support in late innings when those lefty-righty matchups are so important."

Whats just as important to our fans is that Cha Cha bowls, Garlic Fries, and Spray-Can Brie and Crackers, pricing will remain unchanged in the luxury box section.  We thought that this would be a good time to announce this show of faith with our loyal fan base.

You know its going to happen, even though you hope it won't. Right?

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 7:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
You guys are brutal.  That's all you have?  Too heavy on L-R matchups?

I get the impression this post would have been made no matter who was hired, only the particular strategy singled out would have changed.

by Stoned Slacker on Oct 27, 2006 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Magowan has made it known to the media that his favorite is Wotus but that the decision is totally all Sabean's.  It was in one of the articles out in the past couple of days, maybe Weds.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Magowan never "owns" any damn thing.

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I look of it as Magowan's way of saying: "this is your last chance Brian".  Generally, you'd fire a GM if his moves are out of whack or he doesn't field winning talent.  Now Magowan's got a second reason (or opportunity) to fire Sabean if it doesn't work out.

by sfgfan on Oct 27, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I have to agree, I think you hit the nail on the head.  He's already had 2 losing seasons and the leash is getting tighter on his neck.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 29, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
"Part of that is Peavy being so efficient, and another part is that Bochy's had some great bullpens. Still, that's an impressive display of workload consideration."

I think that the biggest part of that equation will lie at the feet of our, ahem, pitching coach. Who unfortunately, appears to be returning in 2007, along with every other member of the coaching staff. I certainly wouldn't look for any huge changes in the handling of the pitching staff, or much else. Maybe the players won't have to wear ties on the airplane.

Other than that, it sure seems like Sabean and Bochy were love at first sight, no?

by sinkerslider on Oct 27, 2006 8:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
According to stats, Bochy was among the least likely out of NL managers from 2003-2005 to have his starter go over 120 pitches.  He was also one with the quickest hook around on starters.  

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I don't understand why "New Direction" has to equal a rookie coach. I also think some people are more obsessed with Youth and New Direction than actually being a good team. Just put a winner on the field. Having a manager that you know can handle the players and isn't going to mess up games is a good start.

by mxmob33 on Oct 27, 2006 8:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
This is a good point. Old Trader Jack McKeon won with a rebuilding young team. Leyland has got the most out of a lot of young players this year. And the latest Patron Saint Of Young Players (Girardi) had only two old mediocre players on his roster (Moehler and Herges), and he put both of them on the mound way too often.

The best way to keep mediocre old players off the field is to keep them off of the roster, and I fear that Sabean is going to fail miserably at that this winter.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 27, 2006 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And ANOTHER thing
if this guy was The Man why would a division rival let him walk? He is still under contract, came off a division winning season and you let him walk?  WHY? Don't give me Alderson wants to hire his own guy because if you are willing to let a man under contract who won walk there is something amiss.

by wilriv21 on Oct 27, 2006 8:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: And ANOTHER thing
Of course there is something amiss.  Its things like his ridiculous adherence to l/r matchups no matter what.  His slavish devotion to washed up hasbeens like Vinnie Castilla.  HE IS FELIPE ALOU without the bullpen abuse.

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: And ANOTHER thing
Alderson has already announced that he won't speak to Bochy about an extension and thus gave him permission to go talk with other teams.  They are currently positioning it as they didnt' want to stand in Bochy's way if he wanted to leave, but  Bochy was clearly a lame duck manager with no hope of returning, how can he motivate players being in such a poor power position?

Why is Alderson like that?  He isn't speaking.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then when do the roses arrive?
Let me get this staright - a division rival says we don't want the bum and the Giants say "we'll take him".

The most optimistic thing I have read about this guy is that he doesn't burn out young arms. Couldn't management just mandated that to any new hire?  Also read he has a quick hook. So now the bullpen is going to be used more often, games will be longer and more need for either two or three lefties in pen.

by wilriv21 on Oct 27, 2006 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Then when do the roses arrive?
Yes, it seems like he is a Felipe type of pitcher, going to the bullpen, but the good news is that he goes to it significantly less than Felipe over the past few years, 498 avg for Felipe 2003-2005, 455 for Bochey.  And for comparison, Bobby Cox avg was 485.

Of course, that was with the Padres great bullpen whereas Felipe had our's.

And yes, you got it basically right, we are getting the Padres sloppy leftovers of a manager, who was scheduled to be a dead manager managing for the 2007 season until he got this reprieve.  That's another reason I don't like the move, the Padres could have been a mess with him at the helm in 2007, though I suspect that if no one bit on Bochy, Alderson would have fired him by the GM meetings, er, Tower would have...  It was worth a try talking with him, just to let the players know what the situation is in SD.

Do you do everything mandated by your manager/job/teacher?  Just like the Giants could not mandate that Durham follow our trainer's prescribed regiment, whoever you hired could do something that they feel is better NOW, like that Supreme Court Justice, Earl Warren, who was suppose to be conservative but then changed his mind, oops, sorry Ike, like ya, but ya know?

And is that a new rumor, is Pete Rose coming to join the team with his son, Jr.?  I would bet that he won't be joining, though I hear he's offering good odds that he will join.  But I would take him as batting coach, he was one of the best hitters of my youth.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do I do everything mandated
the answer is no.  But if during the hire process the boss tells someone this is required/mandated then that person should not accept if they will not follow through.

by wilriv21 on Oct 27, 2006 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Do I do everything mandated
I know friends who accepted paid trips (flights) to interviews because they wanted to go there but had no intentions of joining that company if offered the job.

There are people who lie on their resumes all the time or exaggerate their accomplishments.  For example, one of my former bosses put on his resume that he was a founder when he was really just one of the first employees of the company.

Citizens expect a higher standard of conduct from their elected officials and yet there are sex scandals every year, or expenses that were unwarranted or extravagent.  A local politician here, running for mayor, was exposed to have spend tens of thousands of dollars for membership in organizations that he clearly joined so that he could network and gain support and money, he was not joining to "meet the people" or anything like that, what type of a joke is that?  Then what was that guy thinking, text messaging those sexual conversations to underaged pages?  I think politicians by now should know that the electorate frowns upon verbal sexual foreplay with underaged pages.

Which leads into sexual harrassment, which by now people should know better, but don't.  There is news every month or two, if not more often, of some lawsuit.  And this is very clearly mandated by most companies today because of the litigious nature of our society.

And then there's the ordinary things like driving and even walking on the street.  

Sadly, there's more examples of how people regularly don't do everything mandated.  People's hearts are mainly in the right place normally and probably intend to do everything mandated, but for whatever reason, don't.  For a great example of that, you just have to look at marriage and the promises made there and how those sometimes turn out, lots of very simple mandates there and yet lots of divorces.

There's no one who does all that is mandated, we are all human and there's no way any of us can be perfect like that and do everything right.  I would hope that any person would do what they promise to do in an interview or hiring, but I know that 100% is not reasonable to expect.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 29, 2006 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Do I do everything mandated
We all make decisions in life and then must live with the consequences that will follow.

by wilriv21 on Oct 30, 2006 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: And ANOTHER thing
it was mentioned in the paper today that Alderson commissioned a study on managers and GM's, and the results were that it really didn't matter who they were, they were all pretty much the same. Alderson believes it doesn't make sense to pay alot of money to a manager or GM when they don't make a difference. With Bochy being one of the higher paid managers around, he wanted him out.

by rxmeister on Oct 28, 2006 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm umm....
Eh.
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 27, 2006 9:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Last night I says to my duder, "Bochy is in and boy the McCovey posters are NOT pleased." He says, "Who was their choice?" And I'm like, "Er ... I really don't know. But apparently it was NOT THIS GUY!"

I don't know enough about Bochy to have an opinion, but The Baron tells me that he pitched around Helton while Helton was chasing .400. Now why would he do that?

Otherwise, it's all fine.

by tk on Oct 27, 2006 9:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Hmmm... he certainly never pitched around Bonds.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 27, 2006 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
What or who is a duder?
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Like Louis Armstrong said, "if you have to ask, you'll never know."
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 27, 2006 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I look forward to Star Wars clips during mound conferences.

by zenbitz on Oct 27, 2006 10:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Bochy doesn't trigger my "retread" gag reflex, as it does with some others here.  To me, a retread is a guy who's had multiple managing jobs in MLB, and has never won a ring, but keeps getting hired over and over just based on his name.

Bochy has had only one managing job before this, and is only leaving because Alderson wants his own guys, but is too lame to just fire him and eat the contract.  Bochy's Padres did reach a World Series, where they happened to run into one of the most dominant squads of all time.  Criticizing Bochy for not beating the '98 Yankees is not terribly damning.  With Dusty Baker, you can make the argument that his decisions backfired.  Can't really do that with Bochy in '98.

I don't need flamboyance from my field manager.  Quiet competence will be just fine.  Bochy is probably going to provide that.

Now, let's move on to the dozen or so decisions that are all FAR more important to the Giants than the field manager.  Who is going to fill in all the free agent holes?  Each of those guys is going to have a bigger impact on the W-L record, probably, than Bruce Bochy.

by Skaldheim on Oct 27, 2006 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Grant's quote summed it up nicely:

"I can't say I'm all that excited about Bochy, but the Giants could have done much, much worse."

As fans, the last two seasons have beaten the hope out of us. .500 is now a goal to strive for. We are hoping for the club to be average. Grant's quote captures the helpless Giants fan sentiment of "embracing mediocrity."

Valentine, Pinella, Fergosi, or sticking with Felipe Alou would have been worse. Interviewing Bochy and then not offering him the job would have been brilliant-- basically rattling the Padres cage, dividing their house, and forcing the Padres' hand of (a) sticking with a lame duck manager or (b) letting Bochy go and eating his salary.

If the Giants wanted to concentrate on pitching, how could Bochy be better than Bud Black? I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to think that Bud Black will prove his merit with  the A's or Padres in 2007.

What surprises me most, is that I feel bad for Wotus, who I previously argued against as manager. But Wotus at the helm, with a Robby Thompson or Manny Acta or Mike Matheney or even Bob Brenley as bench coach would have been exciting.

The Bochy hiring fits in perfect with Sabean's M.O. -- Overpay for proven veteran mediocrity rather than risk the unknown.

 

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Oct 27, 2006 10:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
As I've been saying Black is only interviewing with us NorCals to pump up the media on his candidancy for the the SD job, which, viola, just opened up, funny how that worked.

I was pulling for Wotus too, he was able to win the PCL when the Giants farm system was pretty barren, and win titles, so I figured that he must know a little something about managing that would be good to nurture here.  But now it looks like he'll be going elsewhere, though I will note that he was active in interviewing last year, when it was unknown whether Alou is coming back or not, kind of like my conspiracy theory with Black, but nobody has spoken to him at all thus far, even though there were many positions open.  Now that this has happened, he will probably suddenly be available for interviews.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 27, 2006 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I used to play the viola in high school orchestra.  Those were the days...

by CystedTwister on Oct 27, 2006 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...
OGC may be referring to Frank "Sweet Music" Viola.

by tobias on Oct 27, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Damn, I need to improve my negotiating skillz.  I only got $50 from the regulars at that Tijuana bar...

by War on Oct 27, 2006 10:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
And it cost you $200 to have the spines removed. But you'll always have those memories...
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 27, 2006 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Bochy? Whatever.  

I'll save my outrage for when Sabean gives $28 million to Pedro Feliz.

If you whine about Liriano, I will .gif you.

by Fog City Blues on Oct 27, 2006 10:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
That's what I'm saying.  I'm much more concerned about us signing Gary Matthews or Feliz than who the manager.  I tend to think that managers are about as good as the players they are given.
Omar don't scare.

by SF Pete on Oct 27, 2006 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
And you are correct.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Ahhh, but which signing would trouble you more?

For me, Matthews would trouble me more. I have an easier time forgiving overvaluing a known quantity than overvaluing one flukish season.

However, both are capital offenses.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Oct 27, 2006 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Quiet...you'll upset Randy Winn.

by tobias on Oct 27, 2006 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I guess Feliz would bother me more, but that's just because I'm so sick of watching him suck for us.  
Omar don't scare.

by SF Pete on Oct 27, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Amen, hallelujah.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I like the hire and went on record as saying he was my choice among the candidates.  His experience with the Padres includes managing both contenders and rebuilders and he's always been a guy who's good with the media and fans but doesn't seek the spotlight for himself.

I'm looking forward to having a manager that the team actually likes again.  There's something to be said for Dusty's approach of having a team willing to play hard for their manager.

Bochy seems to be one of the "good guys" in the game, but certainly isn't a pansy.

For those that insist Barry come back, this is probably a nudge in that direction as Bochy is the only guy among the candidates who I could imagine Bonds even having the slightest bit of respect for.

His teams almost always exceed pre-season predictions and the Giants made a good hire.  

So there.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Oct 27, 2006 10:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Yeah Mr. McPenisbutter. You're all down with Mr. Potato Head now, but wait until he sits Niekro for Sweeney against Greg Maddux even though Niekro's OPS is 1.834 vs. Sweeney's .636  small sample sizes notwithstanding.

He's just another in a line of tools Magowan and Sabaen have rifled through here in the last 4 years.

In spite of the fact that I get free luxury box tickets just about anytime I want, for the third year in a row, it appears I will be honoring Magowan and Company with my non-attendance.

So there yourself.  Neeners.

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Keeping Niekro on the bench (or in AAA) will always earn positive points for Boche, regardless of who's pitching.

by mxmob33 on Oct 27, 2006 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Does that mean you'll pass me your tickets?

by tk on Oct 27, 2006 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
and you would play Niekro and he would go 0 for 4 and pop his hamstring. You may not think Bochy is a genius because he likes lefty-righty matchups, but looking at who has the better career numbers against a pitcher is not exactly brilliant managing either. In fact it is Felipe's style of managing. I used to laugh when he played Finley because he had good career numbers against a guy when he was a shell of the hitter he was when he compiled those numbers. And if you don't want those free luxury box seats, Mr.Glass Totally Empty, send them over here!!

by rxmeister on Oct 28, 2006 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point
Having a manager who won't ruin our young pitching is more than I can ask for. I'm very guarded about this move. I don't like Bochy but I'm giving him a chance. He's one of us now...just don't fuck this up, pal.
Read SFDugout.com. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 27, 2006 11:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Plus, he's one of Kruk and Kuip's favorites (player's manager, etc..).  It will pump up their early season enthusiasm, which is always entertaining.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 11:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Y'know, I have never really worried about how we're going to keep Kruk's enthusiasm level up. That's kinda like worrying about Barry's OBP - it's never been a problem yet...
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 27, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
To be honest, I thought they sounded pretty depressed, the last month of the season.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 27, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sex with cactus
First off, Cactus the donkey was a really special animal.  Second, I told you that IN CONFIDENCE.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 27, 2006 12:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Check out FSN right now..
Press conference with Bochy.
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 27, 2006 12:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A Few Points..
Bruce Bochy
  • Bochy wasn't considering leaving the Padres until the Giants called.  Wasn't looking for a change.
  • Brian and he discussing the closer situation.  He says Benitez has a good arm.
  • Was contacted by others but he didn't talk to them.
  • Mentioned a terrific shortstop in particular.
Brian Sabean
  • Signing was also because Bochy can attract free agents.
  • Decision made about 11 pm last night.
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 27, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
Thanks.  Did they mention that Goffus endorsed the signing at mccoveychronicles.com?
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Oct 27, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.
Not even a mention of Goofus either.
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 27, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Nope.
See what I mean?  They can't even find it within themselves to acknowledge one of their most enthusiastic supporters.

Told yas they were full of it.

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
Bold face and bullet points ... nice.

by Evan on Oct 27, 2006 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figured out how to do that..
All on my own.
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 27, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
He wasn't considering leaving?  Good for him since he was already obligated for another year of a signed contract.  Hey Bubba how did it feel to be push off Coronado Bridge?

Benitez has a good arm. Great analysis Bochy you did your job.

Sabes, when is Bochy going to call Matsuzaka san? Does he have Aurilia, DeRosa or Padilla on speed dial?

by wilriv21 on Oct 27, 2006 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
Dood!...   You are on such a roll!!!

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
what do you want him to say at an introductory press conference about Benitez?? He's a stiff and we were up all night thinking of ways to get him off of the team??

by rxmeister on Oct 28, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
"He's a stiff and we were up all night thinking of ways to get him off of the team??"

Works for me.

by ololo3 on Oct 28, 2006 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
then my main questions are whether or not Trevor Hoffman and Jake Peavy are free agents.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 28, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Few Points..
If Hoffman and Peavy were available these threads would be full of posts about how we should sign them without giving them salaries just above league minimum, and how they are truly bums, as opposed to the kids in Tampa Bay's Single A club who the Giants should trade for and start immediately.
yob

by Sayhey on Oct 28, 2006 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Well, I'm not thrilled with Bochy, but I think there's been some overly harsh criticism of his hiring here. Bochy is, more or less, a steady guy who's not going to screw things up. If he has a good team, I'm sure he'll do fine.

Also, most of us said at the beginning that goal No. 1 was to find someone who could help our young pitchers succeed. Bochy seems fine in that department.

by Dan from NM on Oct 27, 2006 1:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
So much drama over such a minor decision, don't you think?  I wonder what's going to happen when the actual player transactions get started.

by Skaldheim on Oct 27, 2006 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
"I wonder what's going to happen when the actual player transactions get started."

You just wait!!!  You will see!  Two years of losing does strange things to otherwise mildly homicidal folks.  

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I don't like him, his head is too big.
hung up on '02

by BondsApologist on Oct 27, 2006 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Well, I'd like to stand up and say that dammit, I'm going to root for Bruce Bochy to have a long and successful tenure as the manager of the San Francisco Giants.

(And if you're reading this site, do yourself a favor and just don't...)

by Skaldheim on Oct 27, 2006 1:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
All Giants fans want their team to succeed. The closest comparison I can think of is when I vote for President and my candidate of choice loses I still will support the President and hope he will be the best the USA has ever had.

by wilriv21 on Oct 27, 2006 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Wow... thinking about that comparison makes me feel we're gonna win about 3 games next year, and we're gonna cheat to win those three.

shiver

My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Oct 27, 2006 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

comparison, cont'd
and then say that the obvious losses are not really losses, but just show that our enemies are getting desperate.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 27, 2006 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: comparison, cont'd

Why do you hate freedom, so much?

By the way, those standings aren't the correct standings.  I have the  correct standings, which I am not showing anybody  else and  they have the Giants ahead by infinity games.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 29, 2006 5:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: comparison, cont'd
Can I see?
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 29, 2006 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Someone said that Bochy is the Shea Hillenbrand of managers.  That seems accurate for when we first acquired Hillenbrand.  Here was a guy who had had some success and played reasonably well for most of his career, although he was never someone you'd think of as "the last piece of the puzzle."  Hopefully Bochy will work out better than Hillenbrand did...

by ololo3 on Oct 27, 2006 3:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I voted 'eh' in the poll, but on further reflection my true feelings are reflected below:

"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 27, 2006 3:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Is it bad that I laughed at this quote from the article introducing Bochy as the new manager?
Forget the crotchety old-timers and their injury-prone ways. Bring on the kids. Bring on a championship.
Out of my way, all of you. This is no place for loafers! Join me or die! Can you do any less?

by Natto on Oct 27, 2006 3:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Draper is a frickin' barrel of (unintentional) laughs... there are lines like that in every one of his columns.

I put Draper in the same category as Bruce Magowan when he used to stumble through his broadcasts on KNBR. I part of me wants to severely mock these guys, and a part of me thinks that they're just friendly old hard-working company guys who just might be a little bit retarded.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 27, 2006 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
But our kids suck.
Looks like I picked the wrong year to stop sniffing glue.

by Punch Rockgroin on Oct 27, 2006 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
The press release is even worse. It's filled with the kind of pointless statistics that the Fox analysts have been drooling out all postseason. In it, we learn that:

"His four playoff appearances are tied for seventh among current Major League skippers" (wooo)

Bochy is "just the fourth Giants manager to be born outside of the United States" (yawn)

He is "the sixth manager in Giants franchise annals who was primarily a catcher during their career" (zzzzzzz...)

Please, the guy has been managing in the big leagues for 12 years and these are the most interesting things they can think of to say about him?

WHO THE HELL CARES?!?

"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 27, 2006 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
""His four playoff appearances are tied for seventh among current Major League skippers"

Bochy is "just the fourth Giants manager to be born outside of the United States"

He is "the sixth manager in Giants franchise annals who was primarily a catcher during their career" "

You've got to be kidding...This was in an actual press release?  Who the fuck is thinking these things up?..MoveOn dot Org? The RNC? The KKK?

What's next week?

The Giants announced today the signing of free-agent Gilbert Goolagong.  Goolagong is a third cousin by marriage of Evonne Goolagong Cauley, former tennis star.  Goolagong is believed to be the first Aborigine to sign a free-agent contract with a MLB franchise.  Goolagong has no previous baseball experience, but is an expert with blow darts and was the third string place kicker on the Brisbane University Australian Rules Football Team who once finished in 16th place in a 15 team league. Go figure.

GM Brian Sabaen was quoted as saying that Goolagong will bring savvy veteran presence to the restructured Giant roster in the fhat he is 138 years old and owes his longevity to coffee enemas.

In conjunction with the signing, Managing General Partner, Peter Magowan announced the introduction of new menu items at Payphone Park: Kangaroo-Skin Stew. Cream of Marsupial Mush. Koala gonads on the barbie. Fosters--which as everyone knows is Australian for piss.  Magowan declined to quote prices and said that season ticket holders would be notified by mail once they renewed their tickets for the upcoming 3 seasons.

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coffee Enemas?
That's one tough man.
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Oct 27, 2006 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did we mention the Cream of Marsupial Mush
comes either with or without joey brains diced in the salad shooter?

by Moggeee on Oct 28, 2006 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Did we mention the Cream of Marsupial Mush
Joey Brains? Wasn't he in the first season of The Sopranos?
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 28, 2006 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Did we mention the Cream of Marsupial Mush
Yeah, but I think Tony finished him off in an Industrial Vegetmatic.

by Moggeee on Oct 28, 2006 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Hey, I remember Evonne Goolagong Cawley. Her winning the 1980 Wimbledon title is one of my earliest sports memories.

by non sequitur on Oct 28, 2006 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Her Secret?
Those Aborigines love their Mush.

by Moggeee on Oct 28, 2006 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know
Out of my way, all of you. This is no place for loafers! Join me or die! Can you do any less?

by Natto on Oct 27, 2006 6:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't know
If that was really the size of Bochys head that kid would be lifted a hundred feet off the ground.

by xanthan on Oct 27, 2006 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, Nat, HILARIOUS.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 27, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't know
Where's my nose?  Where's my nose?  The mean manager stole my nose!

by E Ticket on Oct 27, 2006 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Nice post, Grant.

I think Bochy is the best of the four that the Giants were considering.

Wotus - Sabean and Magowan seem like they're well qualified to judge whether Wotus would be a good manager.  Wotus has been in the organization for years.  I would think they'd know him pretty well by now.  Have any other clubs ever had any interest in Wotus as a manager?  How many free agents would jump at the chance to come play for Ron Wotus? Seems like he would have been the just okay, easy on the wallet, we know the guy, choice.

Acta - Everyone is interviewing him.  Is it because he's one of the best minority candidates out there or one of the best candidates period?  He's been on the short list for the Diamondbacks and Dodgers when they were looking for managers.  The Rangers and Nationals are kicking his tires too.  Lots of short lists, but no takers yet.  I'm sure someone will be gutsy enough to take a gamble on him someday soon.  

Black - He wasn't ready last year when the Dodgers briefly pursued him, but he's ready now. He probably would have been a fine choice. Maybe. Who knows?  Possibly. Someone will have to sign him to find out. The Giants may have ended up with three pitching coaches between Gardner, Rags and Black.  

by attinger on Oct 27, 2006 10:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
For what it's worth, Wotus was considered by the Dodgers last year.
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 28, 2006 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Handling pitchers
The prospect of hiring someone like Wotus or Acta was much more exciting - but Bochy's reputation as a manager who players want to play for and as a master handler of pitchers are two qualities that were so sorely missing in the Felipe years.  

This quote in particular from Friday's San Diego Union-Tribune was sweet music to the ears:

"Boch knows what we do," reliever Alan Embree said. "A lot of managers get you up two or three times a game. If Boch gets you up, you know you're going to pitch. And on those rare occasions where he does get you up a second time, you really know you're going to pitch. He doesn't abuse his players."  

The greatest assets the Giants have right now are Cain, Sanchez, Lincecum, Wilson & co. No one knows how Acta, Wotus or even Black would have handled them. Because of his very lengthy record and the wall-to-wall praise of his handling of pitchers we know that Bochy will handle them well. For the last 4 years we had a manager who seemed incapable of taking care of his pitchers, including the young ones, and whose ultimate compliment for a player was to say that "he's become a man". I remember being horrified that the first game after Sanchez was called up from AA (where he had only been shifted to relief a month or so earlier) Felipe had him warm up TWICE - and didn't use him. No more. And thats a very good thing.

by FavoriteSpring on Oct 28, 2006 9:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Handling pitchers
Forgot this part regarding Sanchez: the next day Felipe did use him and Andy Baggarly wrote in the Oakland Tribune that he seemed tired after what went on the day before. He had this quote from the guy responsible for that:

"Down there, when they got him up in the bullpen he was going to pitch for sure," Alou said. "He'll have to get used to that. I'd like to accommodate the kid, but this is the big-league level."

God I'm glad Alou's gone.

by FavoriteSpring on Oct 28, 2006 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Handling pitchers
What is the job of a pitching coach?  Doesn't he have any input to how his pitchers are used?

Doesn't a player have a say on how he is used?  Many are on security of multiple year contracts and hopefully their concerns are heard by pitching coach and/or manager.  Sonehow I would think either if not both manager and pitching coach would heed the concerns of his players.

by wilriv21 on Oct 28, 2006 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
Are we all talking about the same Giants team here?  The one that had two straight losing seasons with the oldest roster in the history of baseball?

This team is penned in in two directions:

  1. The team has very few good young players.
  2. The payroll is limited to $85-$90 million.
Even if Bonds comes back to play one more year, there's still no one in this organization who's going to be a league-average Catcher or First, Second or Third baseman.  (And don't be singing the praises of Feliz or Frandsen.)  This is a team that could be the 2007 version of the 2006 Cubs.

And Bruce Bochy is going to make a difference?

Isn't the real problem that Sabean never saw this coming?  That he never planned for 2004, let alone 2006?

by gdog on Oct 28, 2006 2:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comment rethought
I had a response written that started like this:

I don't think you'll see anybody singing the praises of Feliz. Not here. Not there. Not now. Not then. If even ever, not ever again.

Beside the point, though, since that wasn't your point.

There are a lot of holes to fill, and except for first base and catcher I see pretty viable ways to fill them all. The chances that all of those ways actually happen together... slim and slimmer by the day, but it gives me hope.

And then after that it got quite long and more complicated that I care to move forward with, but rest assured it was me being a Sabean Apologist. I just think there are a lot of circumstances by means of which he got stuck in a situation that makes it easy for us to blame him and that we'll see what he's really made of over the next two to three years, assuming he gets that long. So I'll leave it at that, rather than confusing everybody with my pseudo-logic.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 28, 2006 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Comment rethought
So here's the problem: nobody ever says anything but the nicest things about Brian Sabean.  But despite having the payroll to do something real, he's put together two straight losing seasons, and 2007 will be a third.  In New York, that would get your fingernails ripped out.  

But Sabean just hums along, and everybody gets excited that he just hired a new manager for his next losing season.  What gives?

by gdog on Oct 29, 2006 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Comment rethought
I don't see a whole lot of people excited about the Bochy hiring, at least on these threads, and one of the reasons I vocalize my Sabean Apoligisms is because I rarely hear any of these nicest things about him that you speak of. Mostly, I hear him getting reamed for two bad years in about a decade because of a constraining organizational philosophy that he's been forced into.

I guess we've just been listening to different people, because I've been hearing the opposite opinions from what you say above from almost all of my people. I remember what Sabean can do, and I think we'll see definitively if he still has it these next two years - as I say, if he gets that long.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 29, 2006 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Comment rethought
C'mon, now, gdog... if you could gave me the names of ten people who have "nothing but the nicest things to say about Sabean", I would be surprised. To assume that an entire fan base has this minority opinion is a little silly.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 29, 2006 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bochy
I'm beginning to think that as long as Bochy does not grow that ridiculous moustache back out, I'll be fine.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 29, 2006 8:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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