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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Wright

Today we look at Jamey Wright, in our series evaluating the pending free agents on the Giants.

Jamey Wright will not be back.

I'll be back on Monday with another in-depth look at a pending free agent.

Star-divide

But if we're talking a starter to fill out the rotation, it's worth wondering what direction the Giants are going to go in.

Locks:

Lowry
Cain
Morris


It?s worth noting that trying to fill out a rotation in October is useless. Trades happen, arbitration happens, and spring training invites surprise. Fun to think about, though....


In-house possibilities:

Sanchez
Lincecum
Hennessey
Correia
Sanchez would really have to pitch his way out of the opening day rotation. I wouldn?t be surprised if Lincecum verlandered his way into the rotation out of Scottsdale, even if at Sanchez?s expense.


Possible free agent targets:

Schmidt
Zit...


Possible realistic free agent targets:

Ted Lilly, who will get a lot more money than people expect (3/24, at least).
Miguel Batista
Greg Maddux
Jeff Suppan
Jaret Wright, if the Yankees don?t pick up his optahhahahhahah.....couldn?t keep a straight face there.
Woody Williams
Man, these guys are all 40 or bad or both.
Oooh, here?s someone under 30: Sidney Ponson.

Seriously, this is a wretched crop. Because of the wretchedness, there isn?t a team that?s going to want to trade whatever pitching they have. The only obvious pitcher I could even guess might be traded is Carlos Silva of the Twins.The only pitcher who might be undervalued on the free agent market is Vicente Padilla, who was an average pitcher in a launching pad, leading to a misleading ERA of 4.50. That?ll still get him a good-sized contract, but he?s my guy for now. I like Lilly, but he doesn?t just stand out in the second tier; he is the second tier, and that will get paid Matt Morris money.

A one-year deal to Maddux or Williams might be a nice stopgap move.

Your thoughts on the final piece of the rotation puzzle, at a ridiculously early stage....

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Yes...
...but you just topped it.
Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Yes...
Yeah, the whole "Worst... (insert something stupid here)... ever" joke stopped being funny the second time anyone who wasn't the Comic Book Guy used it.
Listen to the broadcast on KSFO.

by Shane on Oct 13, 2006 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol...
dude chill
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Oct 13, 2006 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
also known as El Wrightymalo.  Hopefully soon to known as El Wrightyadios
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
hey! I find that insulting!

By E, though, so it's kind of an honor.

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Oct 13, 2006 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
We are (cough) fellow alumni of the same highschool--ergo the right to take liberties with one another's vanity is implied, no?
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
uh, no. But now I understand where you learned how to swear like James Carville in a Tallahassee whorehouse.
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Oct 13, 2006 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Jamey Wright is ready for a breakout season -- next year he's going to set the record for most walks in a season!  

by orangeandblackattack on Oct 13, 2006 8:28 AM PDT reply actions  

a breakout season
wright causes bubonic plague in Los Channel This one can always hope.
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
I'll miss saying, "If cheering for him is wrong, I don't want to be Wright."

What an amazing dive his season took.  Those first few starts he was the signing of the century.  I remember the game Grant, GiantJim and I went to, Grant was taking back everything bad he said about him as he was dealing.  Matheny said he had the best stuff on the team, and that was before the concussions!

What the hell happened?  Was he just lucky and reverted back to his norm.  Was the beaning of Giles and subsequnet shelling a confidence shaker of season-turning proportions?

I want answers, damn it!

Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 8:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
I didn't want to have to tell you this, but Jamey Wright is a bad pitcher. I know this comes as a surprise, but I had to clear the air.

by antinous on Oct 13, 2006 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Next!
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Oct 13, 2006 8:33 AM PDT reply actions  

jesus
No need to go into such detail. Next time just give a quick summary.

by non sequitur on Oct 13, 2006 8:40 AM PDT reply actions  

see....
now I feel like a jackass
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Oct 13, 2006 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
I agree.  If we are going to sign a free agent SP then I prefer a one-year deal to Maddux or Williams.  

Or get Matsuzaka.

by Nick Schulte on Oct 13, 2006 8:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
Wright is wrong - unless he becomes a Dodger.
"San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina" - Ron Burgundy

by W8ingForATitle on Oct 13, 2006 9:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
I've always been a Woody fan. (I was going to say "big Woody fan" , but thought better.)  Signing him would cause quite a dilema:
  • Is there room in our hearts for another SP named/nick-named "Woody"?
  • Does anyone really ever get tired of jokes based on the name "Woody"?  (heh, heh...he said woody)
Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 9:18 AM PDT reply actions  

FREE YOUR WOODY!
Or something like that..
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 13, 2006 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Woody Williams has been my own personal Giants killer for years. His stats against the Giants are good and not actually great, but every single time I've watched a game he was throwing against us he completely shut us down.

This difference between observation and fact has done nothing to make me like him any more. Whenever I've seen him pitch, I've been hurt... I suppose he could turn that around... meh...

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 13, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

*No Woody Williams*
Signing a pitcher because he shuts your team down is the worst philosophy there is. I know Woody always manages to shut us down, but against the rest ofthe league he is almost below average. The Giants used to do this all the time. Mark Portugal anyone? Danny Darwin?
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Oct 13, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Let's get Steve Traschel
Maybe we could exercise his option and let Finley pitch.
Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Yeah... remembering a couple of games at AT&T where Jamey Wright was breaking bats left and right had me a little enthused about that signing. Woody Williams definitely fits this category, and I have some strong memories of Vicente Padilla frustrating the Giants as well.

It's not entirely logical, but it's hard to turn these things off.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 13, 2006 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fan your Woody
by KC and the Sunshine Band
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Wright will be back, if he's cheap enough.
Remember, this is the Giants we're talking about here.

by Cleophus on Oct 13, 2006 9:29 AM PDT reply actions  

You were Wright when said
ridiculously early stage....   and that Lilly will be signing for Big bucks.  Lilly won 15 games is LHP and "only" 30yrs old.  He said he would be interested in SF - enough to give disount? I hope so.  4/30m would be more than reasonable for a 15 gamer winner.  SF could then turnaround and trade another one of their pitchers to fill out some of the other holes.

by wilriv21 on Oct 13, 2006 9:37 AM PDT reply actions  

you want...
to sign a guy to 4 years for 30 million who posted a 4.31 and 5.6 ERA in the last 2 years? Wins btw are an absolutely horrible way of evaluating a pitcher.
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Oct 13, 2006 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
4.31 in the AL East is a pretty good performance - a park like SF where his gopheric tendencies would be curbed a little - who knows. I'd give Lilly 4-$30 mil, because he's fairly young as SP's go, and if it enabled us to trade one of Lowry/Sanchez/etc for a decent bat.

by Aadik on Oct 13, 2006 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

you are right...
he had a slightly above average season in the more difficult league.  That said, 4 yr contracts to pitcher, especially inconsistent ones, are a bad idea in general.
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Oct 13, 2006 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you are right...
Kenshin,
the 5.56 ERA is more inconsistent. Look at his numbers the last 4 years -  he's a solid middle of the rotation pitcher with a reasonable strikeout rate (an important consideration given the geriatric defense likely to be out there for the Giants). He's no star, but he's an above-average starter (his career ERA+ is 99 - and given starters as a whole have higher ERA's than relievers). That has value, especially at his age and as a lefty.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lillyte01.shtml

by Aadik on Oct 13, 2006 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you are right...
Look further into those stats and you'll notice that he has averaged 168 IP the last three seasons.  Just say no to Lily.

I still think he'l go for less than the Loaiza contract, which would be for around $6 million a year.  But anything beyond that is totally ridiculous.  Loaiza and Lily's ERA is similar, but Loaiza has a much longer track record, thrown a lot more innings, has a lot more wins and only four years older.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Oct 17, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
I always worry that lefties won't get much benefit from AT&T, since they face mostly righties and the park plays pretty fair to righty hitters. Rueter and Lowry have always had good home splits, though, so maybe this isn't much of an issue.

I still think 4-30 is too much, but the idea of being in the market for a free agent pitcher because we were able to flip Lowry or Sanchez for a great young hitter does appeal to me.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 13, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
but but but....even if that can be pulled off.. its still replacing schmidt with lily...this is a step back even though it is a step forward.
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
Yeah but...
- Replacing Schmidt with Schmidt (or someone like him) is too expensive

I'm kinda thinking that Cain replaces Schmidt as the ace and Sanchez replaces Cain as the up-and-down youngster.

Morris/Lowry/Wright would be replaced by Morris/Lowry/Lliy.  That should be an upgrade, especially if Lowry and Morris come back from injury and are more consistent next season.

Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
and better team defense which can make routine plays, turn DPs and run down balls in the gaps will improve team pitching

by wilriv21 on Oct 13, 2006 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: you want...
Thats an awlful lot to expect from Cain, and Sanchez. Watching Verlander, Bonderman, and Zumiya is cause for hopefulness I guess.  So much can change so fast in baseball...it really is a game of inches...or fractions of inches when it comes to pitches in and around the strikezone.  And streaks. Always the streaks.  Hitless streaks, hitting streaks, scoreless streaks, scoring streaks, errorless streaks, hot streaks, cold streaks, and the most important streaks of all. Winning streaks and Losing streaks.

Nobody knows for sure what starts them. Nobody knows for sure what ends them.  The only sure thing, is that there are all kinds of them during the course of a game, a series, a season.  I gotta believe that massive changes to the makeup of a ballclub are a big part of streaks.  And that is something that happened prior to 1993, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2005 and 2006. Up, down, up, up, up down and down.  

I bet if somebody were to analyze those seasons that one would find a series of streaks both good and bad.

You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mr Lilly
downward trending ERA is not bad - especially if more than 1 run per game. Takes the ball every turn, hits less than innings and wants to be a Giant. Gives up a lot of HR and walks.  Expect HR total to decrease in The Phone Booth

by wilriv21 on Oct 13, 2006 9:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I don't....
consider 1 year a trend.  Think of him as a slightly better version of Matt Morris.  6 mill per year seems fair; however, I can only think of a very few pitcher whom I would sign to a 4 yr contract.
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Oct 13, 2006 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Crazy Money
very true, pitchers and long-term deals do not make wise financial sense.  However, I do expect Lilly to field many offers most likely will be in 3+ option yr or 4yr deal range.  Crazy money will be out there this winter.

by wilriv21 on Oct 13, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: I don't....
I don't see how Lilly is better than Morris or even equal.  

But Lilly's getting more than $6M per year if Loaiza got $7M himself, I see them as similar pitchers.  I think Grant got the right range of salary, probably around $8M per season, there's about a 10% inflation on salaries in the past few years, someone studied this at The Hardball Times I believe (or was it Beyond the Box Score?) and came up with this figure.

Tanks for the mammories.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 13, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Lilly
I wouldn't read too much into the downtrending ERA thing with Lilly since he's been streaky throughout his career. Still I think he would be a good signing; if Matt Morris is anything but a fifth starter next year we're all screweed.

by BradIsMyBrother on Oct 13, 2006 10:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
I like Padilla too from his Phillies days.  

Nice stats, if you look at his road numbers for 2006, his ERA, WHIP, and BAA are all about the same:  career, 4.26 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, .267 BAA, very respectable numbers.  Not to jinx, but these were the numbers I was hoping to get from Wright.  

His main nemesis appear to be LHH.  But he is very consistent, his pre and post ASG stats (ERA, WHIP, BAA) are almost identical.  And he'll be 29 years old for next season.  

The main knocks, besides LHH, I can list is his K/BB is under 2 for his road numbers and his BB/9 is above 3, though just barely, which means his K/9 is under 6, which is not good either, but he basically at the fringes between a good and mediocre pitcher, good being K/9 over 6, BB/9 under 3, K/BB over 2.  

He made $4.4M last season, so a 3 years contract, $5M/$6M/$7M plus team option at $9M or $1M BO and $1M bonus for 3 year/$19M seems about the minimum of what he can get from the Giants, given that his career numbers appears to have reached his career norm, but which coincides with the new Phillies ballpark being an offensive-minded park (even in his good years, his road numbers are basically the same, amazing consistent!), and given the pacity of interesting free agents.  A Loaiza sized contract is probably about what he'll get, 3 years/$21M, plus 10% inflation for approximately $23M contract.

Meanwhile, Lilly has a 4.94 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, and .254 BAA on the road for his career.  More K's but bad BB/9 over 4, and K/BB just under 2.  He'll be 31 years old next season.  All around seems like he is worse than or equal to Padilla in most ways, not sure where he's better.  He got $4M last season, so he should get something similar to what I laid out above for Padilla, which is close to the 3 year/$24M that Grant suggested.

Padilla hands down over Lilly, though if we can snag Maddux too, I would go for it at a reasonable salary, which I think is about $6-7M for one season.  He could help with the mentoring process with Cain et al.  And strengthen the rotation.

However, I would think the Dodgers would have the inside track to sign him, I don't see them letting him go with Billingsly probably a starter and no other reliable starter other than Lowe, Penny is a wild card and they don't really have a good 5th starter even with Maddux, so they will probably be trolling about Padilla and Lilly as well.

But if we got the two, then our rotation will look like this:  Maddux, Morris, Cain, Lowry, Padilla.  This would give Sanchez a year in AAA to hone things down and if he is ready by mid-year, Maddux and/or Morris could be traded off or perhaps free the Giants to trade Lowry in a blockbuster deal to get a young stud hitter, assuming Lowry has returned to normal.  This would, of course, mean that we probably will have to go young with some position players to make up for the money invested in the rotation, though at most $15M, that leaves $30M for LF, RF, 3B, 2B, 1B, maybe catcher, and a reliever or three.  Seems doable, even if Bonds at $10M and Durham at $8M, but would preclude an Aramis signing.

I would prefer signing Aramis than signing Maddux but if Aramis gets a Monopoly money contract, then I would like to get Maddux.  But, again, I expect LA to keep him.

Tanks for the mammories.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 13, 2006 11:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Ted Lilly
3 yrs/ $21M.

2007- $6M, 2007- $7M, 2008- $8M.

Wants to pitch for the Giants.

Left-handed.

200ip per year.

Fourth starter at worst.

Sign him.

Cain
Lowry
Morris
Lilly
???

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Oct 13, 2006 11:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Ted Lilly
SANCHEZ
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 13, 2006 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Ted Lilly
The one issue I have with having Sanchez, Lilly, AND Lowry all in the same rotation is that we end up with three lefties.  I don't know what the exact proportions are, but aren't there more right handed hitters in this league?  And theoretically, wouldn't that affect the Giants' starting rotation (if it were Cain, Lowry, Morris, Lilly, Sanchez) somehow?

by sfgfan on Oct 13, 2006 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Ted Lilly
Except he has never thrown 200 IP in a season, looks to be in the decline portion of his career.

He is basically a league average starter, who isn't really a workhorse.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Oct 13, 2006 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Career high..
197.1 innings 3 years ago.  Last 2 have been 126.1 and 181.2.  Anyone know what the injury for 2005 was?
I blame F.P. Santangelo, while F.P. somehow blames Kuiper.

by WalrusMan on Oct 13, 2006 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

injury for 2005 was?
a broken mcpenis with complications from shoulder and bicep tendinitis.  many trips to the dl.
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: injury for 2005 was?
Im not real sure what the mcpenis is...Goofus would know better than I
You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 13, 2006 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Lilly
The best economical right-handed option would be Kip Wells. Good against right handed hitters and good career numbers against the NL West.

by BradIsMyBrother on Oct 13, 2006 2:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
I think it's always a good idea to go into the spring with a decent fallback signed to a minor league deal... Jamey Wright was a good signing from this perspective. It wouldn't kill me if he were our emergency minor league contract this year, but he probably wouldn't accept a minor league deal before the arbitration deadline, and we sure as hell won't offer him arbitration, so Grant's detailed Jamey Wright analysis is probably spot on.

Kip Wells was just mentioned... I think his injury history warrants a minor league deal, but someone might give him a cheap guaranteed deal with a ton of incentives. Other than that there are the fringe starters (Pedro Astacio? John Wasdin? Rick Helling? Has anyone else noticed that it's been a few years since Rick Helling has totally sucked?) and the injury reclamations (John Thomson? Brian Lawrence? Uh... Shawn Estes?) Or the 4-A guys (Andrew Good? I've always had irrationally positive feelings about Seth Etherton.)

And count me as another "okay with Lilly but would rather make a run at Padilla."

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 13, 2006 2:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Games today
Grant didn't open a gameday thread.  Does anyone want me to?
Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 13, 2006 3:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Padilla
I can't see Texas letting him go, and they like to throw their money around as much as anybody.

by BradIsMyBrother on Oct 13, 2006 3:59 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
Did anyone hear about this A-Rod airplane news? He didn't exactly crash (and he presumably wasn't flying the private jet), but his plane skidded off the runway in LA. No injuries.

by tk on Oct 13, 2006 4:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
Scott Boras reported that his golden goose, er, A-Rod, is fine.
Tanks for the mammories.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 13, 2006 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pujols yakking about Glavine
Derogatory? Complimentary? What?
All else has failed. Let's Go Mets!

by victor frankenstein on Oct 13, 2006 6:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Something about his Momma
Pujols was saying that Glavine's pitching was not all that good.  Personlly, I like shutouts.

by wilriv21 on Oct 13, 2006 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poo-Holes
first I want to say that LaRussa is a genius for putting Taguchi in.

2nd, Why did Poo-Holes point to the sky after his 9th inning "double" (in quotes, because he went to 2nd base on the throw, as the replay showed he stopped after rounding first). I mean, really, is a double worth a sky-point? No, it's not.

3rd, Sean Green should have thrown that

4th, Billy Wagner has Proven Closer's Syndrome ("PCS"). He just can't pitch in a non-save situation.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 13, 2006 8:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Poo-Holes
I would like to see somebody skypoint one day and get hit in the mug with all that oil like in the tv commercial.

Skypointing was poignant, oh say, about 3623 years ago when you could actually part seas and stuff by doing so.

You know what? I've always thought Jose Valentin looked a lot like Zorro."

by E Ticket on Oct 14, 2006 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wright
Yeah, that was some seeerious Three Mile Island stuff , huh?
Now the damn Cards are going to play like they can win th' damn thing...and we'll have to wait an extra week for the Series to be over...and behind us...us who aren't there...again...
All else has failed. Let's Go Mets!

by victor frankenstein on Oct 13, 2006 9:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Wright
I think a long NL series would be a good thing.  If the A's sweep, they'll have to sit around and wait for the Mets/Cards to be decided.  Might be the only thing that can cool them down.
Ramirez in 2007: I'm in!

by Goofus on Oct 14, 2006 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

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