Offseason trade proposals

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 26, 2005 11:39 AM PDT Comment 55 comments

Here are some proposals that I thought up. Feel free to add your own and comment on these.

Jason Schmidt for Carlos Delgado.

Edgardo Alfonzo, Craig Whitaker and Merkin Valdez for Jim Thome and cash.

Alfonzo, Valdez, Eddy Martinez-Esteve and Brian Burres for Adam Dunn and Eric Milton.

Edgardo Alfonzo for Mike Lowell.

Alfonzo and Valdez for Jeff Bagwell.

Valdez for Lyle Overbay.

Valdez and Burres for Aubrey Huff.

Comment away!

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The last two.......

are probably the most likely of the bunch. None are totally out of the question, though.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 26, 2005 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My 2 Pence

1) No. A healthy Schmidt means more than Delgado would for the same money. I'm a little risk-averse when it comes to an established pitcher that's still at almost 9K/9IP. The walks are a concern, but it's remarkable how much his 2005 looks like his 2002. In an extremely optimistic light, his career trajectory is following that of this guy's. Note the hiccups in 1996 and 1998 (sort of a hiccup in '98).

2) The Phils would be crazy to take it, but definitely worth a shot. I think we've deluded ourselves, somewhat into thinking that Alfonzo will have value to them. No way Fonzie would play 2B there with Utley around, and it makes too much sense for the Phils to go the Joe Randa route and trade Thome or Howard for pitching treasure.

3) I like this one for both sides, although I get the feeling the Reds would want more MLB-ready talent for Dunn instead of, say, Kearns. I agree with the sentiment that taking on Milton as a condition of taking on Dunn is something the Giants can afford to risk. Does anyone have Sabean's mailing address? Postcard campaign, anyone? (My sporting man-crush on Dunn has hit new levels!)

4) Again, the Fish would be nuts to take this one, seeing as Cabrera is gonna move to 3B next year, and if they keep Lowell around, he'd fill in at 1B, spell at 3B, and even played 2B a bit this year, essentially fulfilling the Fonzie role with much more name cachet in that area.

5) NO. Emphatic no. Bagwell can't throw, thus he can't play the field, thus he'll probably retire after this season. One of the top ten righthanded hitters since 1990, but he's done.

6/7) So, I take it that Valdez has fallen out of favor, and there's no reasonable expectation that he'll be an MLB starter in the next couple of years. Do we project Rafael Soriano-itis? If so, by all means, let's leverage his reputation into a professional hitter like Huff or Overbay. Huff being preferable for his positional flexibility.

venividivixi.blogspot.com

by David Arnott on Sep 26, 2005 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re

There is nobody to replace Schmidt, and FLA would only trade Delgado to cut salary. Are you assuming FLA flips Schmidt? A three way deal would be more likely
I am sure that Philly believes they will be in contention in 06. Why would they give up Thome and not save any cash? Thome's back/contract are HUGE risks. And he has a no-trade clause.
This is the mostly likely one, if the Giants were willing to pay Edgordo's salary. Even then, he is of no use to the Reds. Plus, I don't think they are as anxious to trade Dunn as believed. A lot of teams want Dunn, but that doesn't mean he will be dealt.
Sure, trade one problem k for another. How does it help either team?
Bagwell has a no trade, and an arthritic shoulder. His numbers have been helped by the Juice Box. He make a huge amount of money [15 or so, I think.]. Is saving 7 million in 06 and gaining Valdez worth losing Bagwell?
Overbay: This is about what I would be willing to give up for him [I'd add a throw in too], but I believe MIL will hold out for more.
If Lamarr is still Tampa's GM, this isn't near enough for Huff.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the juice box

that's great. Haven't heard that one before.

by Brother Bummer on Sep 26, 2005 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't claim credit

No idea where I heard it first though.

I have mentioned this before, bu the funny thing about it: The plaza right in front of the entrance is named "Halliburton Plaza" and I gather it has been that way since it was Enron field.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple of comments

I think that Fla would be willing to take on Schmidt for the one year to replace Burnett. They would still clear years 3 and 4 of Delgado's contract.
I see Lowell as more likely to bounce back to his normal levels. This season was totally out of character for him. That being said, it would still be a huge risk with the potential to turn into another Alfonzo.

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 26, 2005 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since Snatchwig just had TJ surgery

Does he really have a lot of trade value? I think the same can be said about EME, his trade value is still fairly low since he spent the season DH'ing in A ball. Trading players at their lowest value (ie:Jerome) is not a good policy.

While the Giants have a lot of promising prospects in the lower levels, I don't see much at the higher levels that could be used as trading chips. Guys that might have value (assuming Lowry and Cain are untouchable) are already on the big league roster... Hennessy, Ellison, Linden, Niekro, Accardo, and Walker.

by mxmob33 on Sep 26, 2005 12:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Taschner?

I would think Taschner has value, as well....especially since he's a lefty.

By the way, your nickname for Valdez made me laugh. (Goes well with "Whiz Mitts")

by Goofus on Sep 26, 2005 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

TJ

Where did you hear that?

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to my knowledge

he didn't

Location: Firmly ensconced in the driver's seat of the Jonathan Sanchez Bandwagon

by kenshin1 on Sep 26, 2005 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

last I heard

He was planning on throwing in instructional league. I am just curious if there is new info

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to undermine Kenshin but...

I'm pretty sure he did, in August. The Giants didn't anounce anything, but it was mentioned by Jim Callis in one of his chats not so long ago.

Of course, this is something I'd love to be wrong about.

by mxmob33 on Sep 26, 2005 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

He was shut down in August, had an MRI, which was negative.

When he was shut down, it was noted that he had swelling in the inner elbow area - meaning it might be a problem. DrBGiantsFan noted that it is the location of the Ulnar Collateral Ligament [the subject of TJ surgery] and remarked that is it sounded like TJ was a possibility. Since then, there was a report by the chronicle that Valdez was feeling OK and expected to pitch in IL.

I read all the BA stuff, and I don't recall reading it. I looked back and couldn't find it - if you have a link, please provide.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't find a link either...

But I swear I read it a few weeks ago. I mean, I wouldn't make something like this up.

I'll look some more and if I can't find the chat, I'll retract my statements and we can continue using Snatchwig in our trade scenarios until further notice.

by mxmob33 on Sep 26, 2005 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No question about your honesty

or motive. Post something if you find it.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Found it

From the BA section of espn.com:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=9289

"Lou, San Diego: Jim, I had a question about Giant prospect Merkin Valdez . What has slowed down his progress and when do you see him playing in Giants uniform? Is he still a front line prospect?

Jim Callis: Valdez has lost some luster, and his status took a further hit when he had Tommy John surgery in August. He won't be back at full strength until 2007, and he still needs secondary pitches to go with his power fastball"

I hadn't heard this anywhere else

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's it, I knew it was a Callis chat..

Not good news though. What do the Giants have at higher levels that anyone would want?

by mxmob33 on Sep 26, 2005 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Matt Cain.

By Upper, I'll say AA:

Tradeable:
Dan Ortmeier
Fred Lewis
Kevin Frandsen
Billy Sadler - rp
Alfredo Simon ?
Burres - sp
Pat Misch - sp, but was lousy in AAA
Brian Wilson - rp

But they wouldn't get much for any of those guys - maybe a Sadler, Ortmeier, Frandsen package would net you something. Probably not.

Other than those guys, you have to start with young guys who won't get you much, but have potential. That is how you end up losing guys like Liriano and Villanueva.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In August?

Here's a blurb and a Conte quote from the Willits News on September 2nd. And if you can't trust the Willits News, who can you trust? The same blurb appeared in Inside Bay Area as well, although I can't seem to retrieve it now.

http://www.willitsnews.com/Stories/0,1413,253~30428~3038019,00.html

"Right-hander Merkin Valdez's MRI results showed nothing significant in his right elbow. Valdez reported to instructional league in Arizona. 'We want to keep him there for awhile and have him throw a little just to make sure he's OK before we send him home,' trainer Stan Conte said."

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Sep 26, 2005 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And that quote

Was my basis for not believing he had TJ - I think the quote was also in sfgate.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah ha!

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/12471317.htm

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm.....

Maybe Callis was referring to another Snatchwig?

by mxmob33 on Sep 26, 2005 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

email Callis and ask

There was also a not that Valdez got a haircut

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I e-mailed Callis

haven't gotten a response yet. I'll let everyone know.

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 26, 2005 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From the e-mail I sent

It's true and I know it's mentioned in our Eastern League Top 20 writeups (not yet posted on the web). Not sure where else we've reported it.

--Jim Callis

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 27, 2005 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 27, 2005 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

dang it. He could have been an asset next year.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 27, 2005 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's right.............

When they shut down Valdez, there was a news article on the Giants website that had him pointing to the inside part of his elbow and indicating severe pain. I wrote some posts speculating that since this is the general area of the Ulnar Collateral Ligament, that a TJ could be in his future.

A SUBSEQUENT news article on the Giants site said that the elbow now felt fine and Valdez was headed to Instructional League in AZ.

That's the last hard news report I've seen.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 27, 2005 3:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd expect Conte to lie

If they were still unsure of his health. But if he made those comments after the TJ surgery (Which was apparently in August), that is a bit surprising.

After hearing about how good Nen was doing for so long, I guess nothing should surprise me.

by mxmob33 on Sep 27, 2005 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

EME

Yes, it's possible that EME could have higher value sometime next year. But I wouldn't say he's at his lowest value. He's still one of our top prospects and that's what it would take in the trade I proposed.

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 26, 2005 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you're going to deal him,

deal him to an AL team.

Never mind the pennant, we beat the suck Dodgers!

by SerpentX on Sep 26, 2005 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huff vs. Overbay

Aubrey Huff has been underrated for so long that he's gotten to be overrated. Why is his price tag higher than Overbay's, who is almost exactly the same age? Their career stats:

Overbay .287/.374/.453
Huff .288/.342/.479

I'd take the OBP guy, but there's not much difference between the two.

Valdez + Schierholtz for one of these guys? too much?

by Evan on Sep 26, 2005 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would make that trade...

from the Giants perspective... Of course, I am a rather limited judge of minor league talent. I wonder what any of our resident prospect mavens would say?

Location: Firmly ensconced in the driver's seat of the Jonathan Sanchez Bandwagon

by kenshin1 on Sep 26, 2005 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably about the right price tag

Personally, i'll take Huff. I think being in Tampa, along with getting jerked around the field has suppressed Huff's numbers. Plus, Huff is a lot more versatile, and I believe versatility will be huge for the giants in 2006.

His price tag is higher because of Chuck Lamarr, not necesarily talent.

I wouldn't like trading Schierholtz though. The other thing: Niether the d-rays or Brewers would want him. The both have enough outfielders, but need pitchers.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I may be wrong here

but I feel like Huff has more power, despite those numbers.

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 26, 2005 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wilkerson?

Another guy in that same stat/age range, also versatile ... for some reason I think of him as having more upside, though there's more injury risk as well. LaRoche is presumably on the block too. Seems like a buyer's market for fair-to-middlin' first basemen, so I'd try to strike the best deal possible for one of them rather than chasing big names like Thome & Delgado.

Don't know much about Burres ... would he be attractive to other teams? Do any of our pitching prospects carry any weight besides Merkin?

by Evan on Sep 26, 2005 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE

Burres is a skinny, soft-tossing lefty who had great numbers last year and OK ones this year. I doubt a heck of a lot could be obtained for him.

The Giants don't have any prospects that would fetch major value in trade, aside from Cain.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burres rating

I don't think that Burres would rank as high as Greg Bruso when he was traded, and Bruso was enough to get a couple months of Eric Young. (After the trade, Bruso got hurt and has been ineffectual since.)

by steve S on Sep 26, 2005 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on now...

...most of us have assailed the lack of intra-organizational talent. To choose to get older and more injury prone is plain nuts. Bagwell?

When we were all having fun with Schmidt's name at the trading deadline I began to post a couple of teams and players to target. I'll stick with them here.

1B--Stay away from Delgado and Overbay and get a younger and cheaper and just-as-productive version of Overbay in Chad Tracy. Who the hell is he? A damn good ballplayer who's now trying the OF after the D-Backs decided to renew Tony Clark. With Conor Jackson and Carlos Quentin coming up, the D-Backs will move him sooner or later. Why not get him? Maybe someone with a quicker computer could crunch his and Overbay's numbers at the same age and even their stats this season.

1B--Eric Hinske and 2B--Orlando Hudson or Aaron Hill--Hinske is relatively expensive for what he's done lately, but from what I've seen and read on him don't think that he's so bad. Yes he K's a ton, but he's been pretty durable and he's still young enough to improve and the Blue Jays don't really have a spot for him. I put Hudson and Hill down too because the Blue Jays have three guys (add Adams at SS) for two positions. Yes, they've said that they don't want to move Hill, but we're not talking A-Rod here. Both he and Hudson are nice players that produce pretty good numbers and aren't that expensive either.

1B--Adrian Gonzalez and either Alfonso Soriano or Ian Kinsler. The Rangers have a ton of talent on offense and a ton of talent awaiting their chance. Their infield is pretty set and damn good. I mention Soriano because he's expensive and, well, not worth the money. Nonetheless, I'd still rather have him than Durham; I'd prefer Kinsler, but, since the Giants loathe young guys, you all know the answer. This trade is for next trade deadline when the Giants are possible looking to move Schmidt. I don't think that the Rangers would take any other player for Gonzalez.

So, there are a few options from my perspective. Okay boys, who've I forgotten.

Oh and trade Alfonso for Julio Franco...have you seen the old man still hit? Have you seen Alfonso hit? Damn vs. what-the-hell-happened-to-fatty.

by Kent on Sep 26, 2005 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Out of curiousity

Kent, are you related to Chad Tracy?

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 26, 2005 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's on the team, for chrissakes!

by Brother Bummer on Sep 26, 2005 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow, I totally take that back

was looking for Jim Tracy. Tracy? Bueler?

by Brother Bummer on Sep 26, 2005 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I am...

...and Sabean and Hoffman. I punched Hoffman in the mouth earlier in the day and look what happened.

Go Giants.

by Kent on Sep 27, 2005 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chad Tracy

What makes you think the D'Backs would be willing to trade him to a divisional rival? And do we really have the talent to get him?

The reason most of my trades were for highly paid, established players is that those are the type of players that we could realistically get. We don't have the young talent to get young, cheap players. The one thing that we could theoretically do is take on some risk and some money. Of course, this will require Pee-Mag to raise the payroll, but I believe that he should for one year.

Oh, and I take back Bagwell, I thought he would only be a one year thing. He's signed through 2008!

They're still shitty.

by The Balls of Summer on Sep 27, 2005 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent Point

about the ability to acquire cheap players. I think the related problem is that they can't acquire expensive players either, unless they can unload Alfonzo. And I doubt they can, absent loads of cash going with him.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Sep 27, 2005 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, since we're all just speculating...

...I have no idea if Az. would be willing to part with Tracy. What I do know is that Az. doesn't need Tracy, irrespective of what they're saying. How to get him? Well, Az. could use young relief pitchers and we have them. I've seen a couple of their games and Tracy isn't very good in RF; he's a 1B.

It's an interesting point that the Giants are actually in an easier position to acquire expensive guys for a year or so.

All joking aside, I just think that Tracy is a good, young hitter. I also think, as I wrote, that the D-backs will move him at some point. Division rival? Why not, if they can get what they want out of the deal.

On another note, I generally loathe dinosaur ball, but with the dearth of talent on the free agent market next winter, would anyone consider a 1 year deal with John Olerud? Give him an incentive-based contract and let him play. I thought that his bat was too slow to be in MLB any longer, but's he's played pretty well for the Red Sox.

by Kent on Sep 27, 2005 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Olerud

We'd probably be better off with Snow, since Olerud seems to be enjoying Fenway Park a great deal.... he has a .709 OPS on the road this year. It's a pretty small sample size, but coming on the heels of his .762 OPS in 2003 and his .735 OPS in 2004, it would be tough to predict too much of an upgrade over Snow.

I'd much rather have Tracy, but I'm sure he would be hard to get, regardless of Arizona's pending OF/1B glut.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Sep 27, 2005 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't mean to pile on

Two things you have to keep in mind:

Fonzie's not an asset, he's a liability. You might be able to sneak Durham into a deal like that and unload part of his salary, but not bloat boy.
The net result of any trade can't break the salary budget. It's not just that Bagwell can't throw. He's also due $17M next year. The Huff deal might be worth it, if we could find a way to cover his $6.75M paycheck.

Never mind the pennant, we beat the suck Dodgers!

by SerpentX on Sep 26, 2005 11:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs