NWL Top 20 List (Baseball America)
Here are the Giants that made the list. Hmmm Baby!!
- Pablo Sandoval, 3b, Salem-Keizer
- Dan Griffin, rhp, Salem-Keizer
- Ben Copeland, of, Salem-Keizer
- Michael Mooney, of, Salem-Keizer
- *Freddie Bynum, ss, Vancouver (Athletics)
- *Lance Niekro, 1b, Salem-Keizer (Giants)
- Joe Torres, lhp, Boise (Angels)
- Aaron Krawiec, lhp, Eugene (Cubs)
- *Jamal Strong, of, Everett (Mariners)
- Ryan Jorgensen, c, Eugene (Cubs)
- Charlie Thames, rhp, Boise (Angels)
- *Garrett Atkins, 1b/3b, Portland (Rockies)
- *Brad Hawpe, of/1b, Portland (Rockies)
- Wilton Chavez, rhp, Eugene (Cubs)
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Actually...
by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Sep 22, 2005 6:40 PM PDT reply actions
Copeland
A manager is quoted saying the talent is down from where it usually is, but that was the case last year as well and their list of players didn't do well in fullseason this year to top it off.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/04league20s/ntw.html
cop talent
One reason why talent was down in the league this year was that Oakland, which typically has a lot of picks early in the draft, spent a lot of its picks this year on high school players who did not make it to the NWL. Granted, their very top picks are often not in the NWL long enough to qualify for the list, but Oakland did not have an array of players drafted in the 2nd through 8th rounds this year in the NWL.
I would also point out how many of the Giants top prospects never played in the NWL. That would include Matt Cain, Marcus Sanders, Merkin Valdez and Brian Wilson. A few other lesser prospects are Billy Sadler, Brian Buscher and Erick Threets. No longer a propsect (due to playing time), but Todd Linden also never played in the NWL.
True
Anyways my point is, I can't see why this year's list is any worse than last year's talent-wise. The lists both look similarly bad.
I think Mooney played center a lot more than you think. In the beginning of the season Dyche played center and then it seems like a couple of games in Mooney played center every other day. Either way it seemed like from the radio broadcasts that the announcer felt like on some plays that Dyche or Mooney would have gotten to the ball(when he was in the corner outfield position and when he was playing center).
Foreign Talent
Still, it seems like there hasn't been all that many on any of the lists so far. It's encouraging that 4 out of the 7 Giants prospects listed for the AZL and NWL were from outside the US, Martis, Joaquin, Shoop, and Sandoval. I'm especially excited about Martis and Shoop from Curacao. The fact that we have two from there this year tells me that we have an active scouting program there. If you watched the Little League WS, you know that Curacao has a great Little League program. That could become a real hotbed for talent with highly developed skills in the near future. I know Andruw Jones is from Curacao. I don't know about any other major leaguers. Every single one of the players on their Little League team said Andruw Jones was their favorite player.
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 24, 2005 3:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Mooney CF?
I would also note that as I recall Brian Horwitz played more in CF last year than Mooney played this year. I don't recall Horwitz playing in CF once this year.
You're Right
Thanks for checking the game logs.
Yikes!!
Good point
Fat Players
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2005 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
obese?
is there a link anywhere?
Subscription needed
If you don't have a subscription, you can email me and I will send you the pic as attachement.
Yikes...
Send him some trimspa!
That's right........
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2005 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, Maybe I was a little too harsh.
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2005 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
SAL prediction
- Sanders
- Sanchez - I bet his playoff start boosted his rating.
too high
by prospecthound on Sep 24, 2005 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I always pay attention to the NWL
I have always thought
BA NWL chat: 6 comments on Giants prospects
Here are the Giants questions:
Q: Robyn Drever from Salinas, CA asks:
Was Will Thompson overlooked due to his season ending injury? Wasn't he leading the league in batting average when he was hurt?
A: Will Kimmey: No, Thompson certainly was discussed. He batted .380 before injuring his ankle. Managers loved how he stayed inside the ball and didn't try to do too much with it, but ultimately he misses out because for a first baseman who's about to turn 23 in six weeks, you want to see more power than two homers, and this is playing in a park that encourages extra-base hits because of its dimensions. Thompson's Mark Grace in the best scenario, and still is an interesting sleeper, but he'll really need to get on the fast track to make the majors in a reasonable amount of time.
Q: Casey from Guilderland, NY asks:
Hi Will, Thanks for the chat. I am real excited to see Dan Griffin at #7 on your list - can you tell us a little more about him? Where do you see him starting next season, and is he for real, or was he just handling younger competition when he should have been in the Sally League? Granted, he is VERY young for a guy out of college (not even 21 yet). He was one of my buddies in High School, and we're all rooting for him back here in Guilderland. Thanks!
A: Will Kimmey: Guilderland, reminds me of the guilder, the form of currency in the Netherlands before the euro came to pass. Great name. Oh, you asked a question? I'd say Griffin was right where he needed to be this summer. He's a college draft, sure, but Niagara isn't quite the same as pitching in the Big 12 or SEC or Pac 10, plus being up North, Griffin's gotten less experience than the Sun Belters as well. That he led the NCAA in K's per nine this year was encouraging, but not as encouraging as the fact that he basically kept mowing guys down at a similar rate in the NWL. His power fastball and hard curveball make that possible. Low Class A seems realistic for 2006, because the Giants don't need to rush him now with what's in the chute ahead of him. Plus the org showed much patience with Matt Cain this year, letting him work at Triple-A nearly all season when they could have recalled him much earlier. For me, that's a good plan because it hurts to rush a young arm into struggles at the major league level.
Q: tiffythetitan from Oakland, CA asks:
Why did Pablo Sandoval move from catcher to 3b? I don't recall the Giants having any other catchers with his ability (hitting at least) in the organization and Mike Matheny should hopefully be long gone by the time Sandoval is ready for the majors.
A: Will Kimmey: It was a better fit for his skills. And after a year at third, there's certainly a consensus that he's better there than behind the plate. The move could also help unlock his offensive skills quicker, though that's more my inference than a stated fact. As for being short at catcher, look at the organization and third base is about as thin, so that part of he equation won't be a big deal. The Giants also moved another catcher, Todd Jennings, to the infield this year as well.
Q: Dave from New York asks:
What's your take on the Giants placing four players on this list without a first, second or third round pick this past draft?
A: Will Kimmey: Three things: 1) Good drafting to nab Copeland and Griffin in rounds 4 and 5. 2) Thin league in talent. 3) Mooney and Sandoval weren't 05 drafts, so that's of no consequence.
Q: Matt from Laguna Niguel, CA asks:
The Giants seem to have a lot of lower level prospects with tremendous upside. They've got 7 of the top 40 in the ASL and NWL. Aren't there some other names from the Giants that just missed being put on these lists also?
A: Will Kimmey: Sure, Dave McKae enjoed a very good year. I mentioned Thompson earlier. Joey Dyche can really rake. He batted .500 in 202 at-bats at Lewis-Clark State this spring but seemed a little run down by the time he reached Salem. Manager Steve Decker really liked Wayne Foltin out of the pen, with a lively, swing and miss fastball and a power slider.
Q: Brad from Portland, Maine asks:
Who impresses you more Ben Copeland or Mike Mooney, why?
A: Will Kimmey: Their raw athleticism stands out the most. Mooney's got more power while Copeland could play more of a speedy game with flashes of power.
The session ended with this general comment about the difficulty of evaluating players in the low minors (the last line echoes slcgiant's opening comment here - does Kimmey read McCovey Chronicles too?):
A: Will Kimmey: This will be the last one, and it's a question more about the process of this list, so it's a fitting summation. Putting together prospect lists at the lowest levels often presents the most difficult jorb of any league because the age groups and experience levels vary wildly. Also, players are still adjusting to all that goes into professional ball, including playing everyday, the traveling, and even finding a new culture for foreign players and coping with culture shock for domestic ones adjusting to parts of the country they've never seen. These off the field factors can strongly color on the field performance. So stats aren't quite as important at these levels, while players are finding their way and making changes their ne organizations have suggested. Dominant years for very young players will stand out more positively, while giant struggles for much advanced players tend to hurt. In general, big tools are favored because they can lend to star potential. Polished command pitchers like Jeff Gilmore, Robert Rohrbaugh, Mike Madsen, Trey Shields, Brent Carter often show well at these levels, but their stuff won't lead to as large an impact if they make the majors as a guy with even one dominant tool. It's the nature of the game. And by that nature, these lower-level lists are often very boom or bust, hit or miss. Check the five years ago future for evidence in that regard.
I think you can apply that to almost any Top10list
Look at the Dodgers and Giants. Just a couple of offseasons ago, there was non-stop raving about the Dodgers pitching prospects, Edwin Jackson and Greg Miller, but clearly not near as much about the Giants. But Lowry and Cain are now pitching well for the Giants and Jackson and Miller are doing nada for the Dodgers.
Look at the A's and Met's 4 Aces that were touted in the early 1990's, after the A's pulled the coup of signing a 1st round guy in a much later round by giving him $1M bonus (Van Poppel). I think none of them made it as a starter, Isringhausen is the most successful of the bunch by far, Van Poppel and Karsay became useful relievers but not even a top set-up man among the bunch, from what I recall.
Moreover, I think it is just a nature of the beast. Realistically, how many minor leaguers become regular major leaguers each year? Don't got the numbers but I would imagine that it is not huge; even at 2 per team that's only 60 players but I would think less than 2 on average. Then you divide by all the minor leaguers who are out there, which I don't got either but conservatively estimate at at least 3000 (there is potentially 1500 new draftees each year so I figure that there should be at least double that figure in total but probably more). That's 2%. So very few make the majors each year but each league has to pick their Top 10/20 prospects, no matter what their potential relative to past years or relative to making the majors.
The positive to take from this list is that Atkins and Hawpe are doing pretty well for the Rockies this season and Niekro has had his moments and been with the team all season. That's a 30% "conversion" rate and, with esssentially 3-4 in the top list, that implies that the Giants might have a good chance that one of the four will do well for us in the majors 5 years from now. That's one more than we've been looking at for most years of the Sabean era.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Sep 26, 2005 4:16 PM PDT reply actions

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