AJ article

by irwin on Jun 17, 2005 11:12 AM PDT

Sportsline has an intersting article on AJ's and his new team.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8569874/1

Obviously, we shouldn't have traded for the guy. But should we have re-signed him?

A few points/thougts/opinions of my own

1.) Clearly he is a better hitter than Matheny
2.) Almost all our pitchers are worse this year than last.
a.) Clearly, it is a pretty tough case to make that Matheny has been any great help with the pitchers.
b.) I doubt he has made them worse, but it isn't out of the question.

3.) Tomko had a career year with AJ catching him a lot.
a.) Is it possible that he was better because he was pissed off at AJ instead of inside his own head?
b.) Or is the catcher's pitch calling mostly irrelevant.
4.) I have no clue what to think of the Conte incident and wouldn't be suprised if it was BS. If true though, they probably couldn't keep him irrespective of money.
5.) How did players not named Tomko feel about the guy?
6.) The ChiSox pitchers are a heck of a lot better this year, even if they may be getting lucky.

Poll

The bigger headcase?

AJ

16 votes

Tomko

11 votes

27 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Matheny helps pitchers.

He saves runs. Maybe two a game.

The Giants ERA would be 7.00 without Matheny.

I sense doubt. If you do not choose to believe, we have ways to convince you.

by Grant Brisbee on Jun 17, 2005 11:29 AM PDT reply actions

Free Yorvit!

Yeah, but Torrealba's catching ERA (or whatever you call that stat -- help me, nerds!) is lower than Matheny's, so what does it say that Matheny saves runs? Yorvit saves more.

I really wish the Giants would make up their mind about our backup catcher. If they don't trust him to be an everyday catcher, why dick him around season after season while a more expensive starting catcher rolls into town and either kicks the trainer in the crotch or lets runners steal at will? Either trade Yorvit so he can finally be a starting catcher somewhere (and try to get some value for him in return) or let him play more than once or twice a week.

This goes to a larger issue that hasn't been discussed much here, which is the sometimes strange, passive-aggressive ways the Giants braintrust have in dealing with their 'troublesome' players. For example, they trade Jerome Williams and then let some vague rumors about Williams' 'personal problems' float out there in the ether. Don't they have enough faith in their own abilities to turn around supposed problem children like Williams? Same for AJ. The Stan Conte story was blatantly put out there after they let him walk away for nothing, as if to justify how badly they fucked up handling him.

by Kitspool on Jun 17, 2005 12:04 PM PDT reply actions

good point

I hadn't really thought of it that way.

One of my problems is that they seem to ditch players after a bad performance in an important game.

Examples:

Hernandez
Nathan
J. Cruz
Mohr
Hermanson

by irwin on Jun 17, 2005 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed . . .

. . . sort of. I thought that they should have kept Hermanson unless they were going to add two arms (four arms) to the bullpen to replace him and I thought that it was a little abrupt to get rid of an effective young pitcher like Nathan after they had converted him from shortstop, developed him, and waited out his arm injury. Hernandez and Cruz Jr. are different stories though. At the time I didn't feel like the Giants could bring back Cruz anymore than the Red Sox could bring back Grady Little. They both served as living reminders of failure and in Cruz' case it didn't seem like his production would be that hard to replace since he was basically useless against good pitching. I felt similarly about Livian. He came in with a reputation as a big game pitcher from his Marlin days but was close to awful during the W.S. run in 2002. That being said in a market where Eric Milton can get $20 something million I hoped that they could get a little more than a mediocre middle reliever.

Lemaster10

by Lemaster10 on Jun 17, 2005 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Milton's contract

That wasn't the market at the time.....I don't think you can fault Sabes for that trade. Who knew that Livan would turn it around?

by The Balls of Summer on Jun 17, 2005 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions

two things

1.) It's their job to know.
2.) Livan was more or less an average pitcher who soaked up innings. Valuable. Brower: Not so much. Moss: not so much. The had to count on rookies the next year, which is a darn risky strategy. They basically chose him over Alfonzo, when they had feliz.

by irwin on Jun 17, 2005 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions

AJ sucks

I don't think that the behaviors that AJ exhibited in the clubhouse are healthy for any team to have around, much less for the pitchers working with him.

However, I agree with the logic on Yorvit. I also don't think getting Matheny was a mistake. Even if Yorvit is outperforming him in catching base stealers and pitcher ERA, Matheny's sterling reputation is obviously due to something. Even if it is all intangibles (i.e. work ethic, rapport with pitchers), these are things worth imparting to Yorvit, and (maybe) worth matheny's salary. Hopefully, at the end of the day, we'll have a young catcher with some pop, a cannon, and a great sense of how to keep the battery positive (heh heh...).

"I never have more than one drink before dinner. But I do like that one to be large and very strong and very cold and very well made." - Bond

by Hayes on Jun 17, 2005 12:38 PM PDT reply actions

The only problem with that

is that at the end of the day (Matheny's contract) we won't have a young catcher anymore. At the end of 2007 we will have a $4M option on Matheny with a $2M buyout and Yorvit will be a 29 year old free agent. He won't necessarily be young or cheap anymore and he won't have been given the chance to start and we won't have seen what he could do with a starter's playing time.

by Nick Schulte on Jun 17, 2005 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Reputation means he is good?

Isn't it possible is just because guys like him as a person. While clearly he is a good defensive catcher, I doubt ANY catcher has much effect on the run average of a pitcher. Most of AJ's teammates seem to think, that while he may be an ***hole, he makes the team better and is there to win. I don't think it is necessary to like a guy to be able to win with him.

I think it is probably a similar situation with Reuter. Everybody loves the guy, so he has a better rep than his performance deserves.

As an aside, Tomko's cancer comments were pretty bush league. 1st of all, you shouldn't rip a teammate in the paper. 2nd, if you do, own up top it. It think that is just as bad as anything that AJ may have done [like I said, I have my doubts about the Conte story. Especially if it comes from Tomko.]

by irwin on Jun 17, 2005 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Good points, all, but...

Conte confirmed the story on KNBR a while ago. Didn't seem like it was a Tomko exaggeration.

Dustin Hermannson aside, how sweet would a SF/ChiSox World Series be? (Hello: pipe dream!) I can envision Brett going Marichal on AJ -- so sweet.

by tomzilla on Jun 17, 2005 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Hahaha

I'm seriously laughing out loud. Who wouldn't mind Tomko going Marchial on AJ? =)

by ironchefcurry on Jun 19, 2005 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Those double plays count

A.J. was a remarkably bad offensive player last year, gaudy RBI count aside. Furthermore, most of the ways we know to measure defense indicate that Matheny is good, and A.J. is bad, at least historically. This year Matheny has been more valuable, though they're close:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/winshares/index.php?search=&linesToDisplay=100&sort=total&s ort2=WSAB&limit1=Team&limit2=C&leagueLimit=Both

Last year was significantly more extreme:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/wsnlpos/#c

The truth lies somewhere in between. I think there is ample evidence to show that A.J. is not as good a hitter as his counting stats would indicate, and Matheny's defensive advantage pretty well cancels out A.J.'s offense. Still, I can't believe we're paying Matheny twice as much.

Yorvit is still better than both of them.

I really feel like there's an opportunity here. We're wearing that Matheny contract to the bottom of the ocean, but one of the five contending NL East teams with big problems at catcher - New York, I'm looking in your general direction - might be fleeceable. I'd rather keep Yorvit and two million bucks than Matheny, but since that isn't an option, I'd like to get value for our super backup.

by antinous on Jun 17, 2005 2:02 PM PDT reply actions

Question

I can't seem to find out how they are calculated, but isn't one of the complaints about WS that they overrate defense?

From a purely gut feeling, I can't see how Matheny's very good defense makes up for his helpless offense. Especially with stolen base's seemingly becoming less important.

While AJ is not a great hitter, it seemed like he was a much better fit for the Giants from a lineup construction perspective because he gave them another badly need lefty bat.

by irwin on Jun 17, 2005 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions