Rally Hippo

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 22, 2005 11:22 AM PST in News

A few things I didn't know about Edgardo Alfonzo until this trade:

1.    He's relatively overpaid.
2.    He's inconsistent.
3.    His decline from All-Star status was nearly as pronounced as Finley's.

You learn something every day.

The Anaheim partisans and bloggers are giddy, roundly giving the deal two thundersticks up. I'm terribly sorry they had to watch a painful performance from a player for one whole season. That must have been terrible. Enjoy Alfonzo, Southern California. Enjoy him to the last drop. There is no injury that can explain away just how awful he was, and his age-related decline started when he was about 29. He's truly an artist, both at the plate and around the bag at second. Unfortunately, the artist is Robert Mapplethorpe, and you don't want to know where that bullwhip is going. You think you might get used to it, but you never do.

While writing this post, I noticed Jeff Cirillo had a decent part-time role for the Brewers last year. If Alfonzo ever, ever, ever has a productive season after leaving the Giants, I will take his mother - Dorothy Alfonzo - out for a nice seafood dinn...you get the idea.

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Comments

I don't understand it

How can anybody say Sabes didn't do well here? Alfonzo is a three year suck machine! Finley might be done, but we only have one season that says that. The salaries are a wash, and the Giants did not need another shitty third baseman.

Of course, the trade makes the Giants older, so therefore, it must be ridiculed. All old players suck. Just ask Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, and the 2001 D'Backs.

Good show, Sabes. Now go get a real bat.

I blame Tomko.

by The Balls of Summer on Dec 22, 2005 11:32 AM PST reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

The Mapplethorpe line might be your best ever.

I really don't want it on a t-shirt, though.

by Evan on Dec 22, 2005 11:36 AM PST reply actions

Proper Occasions for the T-shirt

Really, where would one wear it, anyway? After Folsom Street Fair, I'm pretty much out of ideas.

by antinous on Dec 22, 2005 11:41 AM PST up reply actions

Those Silly Angels People

Those "Anaheim" fans really need to examine Alfonzo's Baseball Reference page. I can't get over it. It's as if they're living in some pre-internet age when the only information they have about him is their memory of him playing in the 2000 World Series on national TV. It's just a jump to the left...
Alfonzo's perceived value to these people seems entirely due to his 1999-2000 peak, when, not coincidentally, he hit over 40 doubles and 25 home runs each year. THE REST OF HIS CAREER, he's been the love child of Bill Mueller and Carlos Baerga, hitting like Billy and fielding like Carlos, and these past three years, his power has dropped even below Billy M.'s level. He's a roly poly player with back issues who, understandably, hasn't aged well. Finley was a speed player who stays in phenomenal shape, and thus should have been expected to age well. If the worst the "Anaheim" fans can say is that Finley sucked for ONE season and wasn't very fan friendly, then so be it.
The big difference is that we're expecting Finley to start two or three times a week and fill in when injury strikes, and there's a distinct possibility Scioscia (with his Dusty-esque veteran fetish) will start Alfonzo as his everyday 3B or 2B from the get-go. And, as we all know, Edgardo Alfonzo is your starting second baseman... Edgardo Alfonzo is your starting second baseman. Good luck, guys. Let's hear the cheers for this trade when Fonzie's got a .650 OPS in July.

David
29Sunset - My "Band"
Sportszilla - My sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Dec 22, 2005 12:25 PM PST reply actions

Re: Those Silly Angels People

That should be "WHEN Edgardo Alfonzo is your starting second baseman... Edgardo Alfonzo is your starting second baseman."

David
29Sunset - My "Band"
Sportszilla - My sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Dec 22, 2005 12:27 PM PST up reply actions

that's okay...

...it was kinda spooky and forboding the way you accidentally typed it anyway.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 22, 2005 12:33 PM PST up reply actions

Can't fault the Angels fans

Well, for this anyway.

When you're able to unload a hated player with a big contract, the natural reaction is to rejoice, as evidenced by the general reaction at this blog. I was happy when the Giants traded Livan and a truckload of cash for Jim Brower, even though I had never heard of Jim Brower at the time.

Grant has a good point, though... we have had time to build up a lot more hatred of Alfonzo than they have of Finley.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 22, 2005 12:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Those Silly Angels People

I think it's more like:

"Alfonzo's perceived value to these people seems entirely due to" "Finley sucked for ONE season and wasn't very fan friendly".

Maybe if you put all caps on sucked you'll capture their enthusiasm for this trade. I don't think the Alfonzo part has much to do with it.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 22, 2005 12:35 PM PST up reply actions

maybe I should have pushed refresh first

by Nick Schulte on Dec 22, 2005 12:37 PM PST up reply actions

I don't understand...

how the angels fans can look at Alfonso and conclude that he has any upside. He has been terrible for a prolonged period of time. Furthermore, their argument that Fonzie can play 2b is laughable.

Whatever happened to that girl I knew, she was just like you- but was way more into me

by kenshin1 on Dec 22, 2005 12:44 PM PST up reply actions

I agree with you

but his main upside for them is that Finley won't be in CF anymore. They are probably just over-optimistic with Alfonzo because they haven't seen him.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 22, 2005 1:07 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

Angels fans will get a rude surprise with Alfonzo. He couldn't hit outside of SBC (last two years) while Finley couldn't hit in Anaheim. Amazingly enough, Alfonzo made SBC look like a strong hitters park with his performances the past two seasons.

I was happy with this trade, I was happy with the Livan trade, Brower had nice stats when he was relieving with the Expos, it was him starting games that screwed up his stats. Even with only 12 homers, Finley is like Ruth compared to Alfonzo weak 2005 season, a hamstring problem shouldn't sap your strength that way, it didn't bother Durham's power the whole time he's been with the Giants. And if Anaheim affects Alfonzo like it did Finley, he'll be lucky if he matches Neifi's stats in 2006. I hope he starts for them and that they trade away good players to make space for him, maybe they'll like to give us one of their corner infield prospects or something.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 22, 2005 12:58 PM PST reply actions

tons of fun

i have to say "Rally Hippo" had me in stitches. i think i need to draw the Rally Hippo sitting on the Rally Monkey now.

www.clubph34r.com

by Natto on Dec 22, 2005 1:03 PM PST reply actions

Yes, the Hippo sucked

Mitigating factors:

He's younger than Finley.
He won't be a starter.
Angel Stadium is a neutral park, where SBC is pitcher-friendly (or so I recall).
Finley has a 600 PA clause that kicks in and guarantees a third year with a buyout ($1M? $7M? Don't remember). He could get that with the Giants.

It looks like suck for suck to me, though.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Dec 22, 2005 2:06 PM PST reply actions

Re: Yes, the Hippo sucked

Only way he gets 600 PAs is if he really produces, so then what's the problem.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 22, 2005 2:27 PM PST up reply actions

Finley, 600 PA?

If Alou or Winn go down for the year, I could see Finley getting those PA, no matter how awful his production.

If Bonds goes down for the year, the Giants may mercifully give up on the old guys.

by GiantJim on Dec 22, 2005 2:49 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Finley, 600 PA?

If Bonds goes down for the year, then he is gone for good; he will retire.

I would urge the Giants to immediately go into fire sale mode if that happens, and trade all the old guys for whatever they can get.

by Skaldheim on Dec 23, 2005 8:50 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Yes, the Hippo sucked

SBC treats righties fairly... as a Giant, Alfonzo was a much better hitter at home. It kills lefties, which helps explain Finley's zero career homers there.

I believe that the 600 PAs only makes it a mutual option that the Giants can still buy out. I am a little confused on this matter, though.

But, yeah, until one of the players proves otherwise, we're looking at suck for suck.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 22, 2005 2:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Yes, the Hippo sucked

I believe that the 600 PAs only makes it a mutual option that the Giants can still buy out.

That is correct.

Free Hee! ..... to the Giants.

by Fog City Blues on Dec 22, 2005 2:55 PM PST up reply actions

The thing about Finley...

He's had some really bad years in the past, and has always rebounded.

In 2004, he had an .823 OPS and hit 36 HR. That's only a year ago.

Yeah he's old and he may be washed up, but he's got a lot more potential upside than Edgardo.

Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 22, 2005 3:07 PM PST reply actions

Upside

That's what I'm thinking. At least Finley is a workout demon who keeps himself in great shape. Alfonzo hasn't been in any kind of shape for at least the last 3 years. If I had to bet on which one was more likely to have 1 or 2 good years left in them, I'd bet on Finley.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 22, 2005 5:22 PM PST up reply actions

Re: The thing about Finley...

I agree. Still funny to think about a 41 year old with "upside."

by keithr on Dec 22, 2005 10:41 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

So I followed the link to the Angels' site to read what their fans were saying about the trade, and one post really struck me. It was a fan talking about the consequences of the trade for Adam Kennedy. He referred to Kennedy as "the best number 9 hitter in baseball last year."

Wow. Call me snob, but they really speak a different brand of baseball over there on the other side, don't they?

That being said, I want to offer this one frail defense of Alfonso... I think it's a little weird to criticize him for being fat. Shit, including pitchers, I think at least 20% of every team's roster, AL or NL, is pathetically fat. Baseball's always been that way. Whenever I hear announcers talk about how well Roger Clemens takes care of himself it always makes me laugh. Loud.

by Blake on Dec 22, 2005 10:06 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

To be honest, I really don't consider Alfonzo fat. Out of shape, sure, but not fat. Jokes are jokes, though, and I'm a joke whore.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 22, 2005 10:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

I don't criticize anyone for being fat if they get the job done (that's why nobody criticized Ruth or Stargell). It's when you can't produce that people start looking at that stuff (like Livan). Especially when, as a thin man you were an all-star caliber hitter and defender, then got fat and lost the ability to do either (Alfonzo).

You can say it's all a coincidence if you like, but you can't ignore the obvious evidence for the reason behind his decline. Greg Minton caught the exact same shit when he got fat and ineffective after signing a multi-year contact.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 22, 2005 10:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

I should point out the following sarcasm:

Relatively overpaid? In what fantasy world is Alfonzo not absolutely overpaid? Relatively. Sheesh.
Alfonzo is one of the more consistent players in the league.
Nearly as pronounced? Finley had a crappy year after a good one. Alfonzo has had three crappy years after entering free agency as a twenty-something, and getting signed for a metric assload of money.

And I still think Alfonzo's age is legit. Venezuela is not a shoddy record-keeping company, if I recall correctly. Alfonzo isn't old, he's just what powers the DeLorean in 2015: garbage.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 22, 2005 11:48 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

I agree, relatively? Relative to whom, Marvin Benard?

Plus, the question over his age was answered last winter when he played in the winter leagues for the first time in years. It was rumored that he stopped playing in them because his age was faked and going to his homeland would expose that fraud.

Not to condone it, but I think being away from his family really sapped him mentally and then physically. I mean, he paid good money - $50K was what I read - to pay for ads across NY thanking his fans, who in this day would do something like that? How sentimental is that? And there was all that talk about his family coming in to see him his first season with us and how that maybe sparked his second half resurgence.

Plus, now thinking this out logically, maybe he got fat eatting fast foods or something since his wife isn't giving him good, healthy, home cooked meals. He probably doesn't cook or have time to cook well, nor would he get a chef like Bonds did (maybe he doesn't have a friend to steal a chef from :^), he probably goes out to eat during the season. Even if he ate at good restaurants, they are probably not good for maintaining lean muscle tone, there's probably a lot of fat and salts.

But you're a professional and you took our good money to play for us: deal with it!

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 23, 2005 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

Oh, I got the sarcasm.

As far as Alfonso's age being legit... geez, I never thought of that. He does look at least 40, doesn't he?

I really wonder where Edgardo will rank on the list of ninth spot hitters next season.

by Blake on Dec 23, 2005 12:42 AM PST reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

I found this interesting
http://forums.mercurynews.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-sfgiants&tid=178&vote=1&submit= Vote

by prospecthound on Dec 23, 2005 7:07 AM PST reply actions

Re: Rally Hippo

Six votes saying it was a bad trade, huh? Let's see, that would be Fonzie, Bill Stoneham, Fonzie's mom, Fonzie's wife and kids. That's six votes right there.

I'm sure Fonzie is a terrific guy, and a class act. It's just a shame we didn't get to see his best years.

by Skaldheim on Dec 23, 2005 8:49 AM PST up reply actions