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Welcome to Morris Valley

This isn't going to end pretty. Wagering on Matt Morris to be worth $9M in 2008 is like betting on Howie Long to win a Tony that same year for starring in a Broadway adaptation of Firestorm.  Morris has been under the knife a couple of times already, and his second-half slide last year is more than a little worrisome. This contract, at least as it is reported, has serious potential to foul up future budgets. There was little choice for the Giants, though, but to go after one of the expensive free agent pitchers available. All pitchers are risks to self-destruct at any time, and all free agent pitchers are overpaid. The team didn't have the players to make a trade, and they didn't have any other players to cheaply fill the hole through the farm system. Almost by definition, the Giants were going to have to get an overpaid risk to self-destruct. Considering the position they put themselves in, at least the Giants did well for next year.

The Giants window for contending is being propped open by a 41-year old dowel showing serious signs of dry rot, and the future of the team is beyond bleak. The Giants don't have a position player worth keeping or counting on past next season. There's a hyperbole disclaimer: it's silly to completely rule out a team contending several years in the future. Dan Ortmeier could miraculously morph into a 40-40 player, and the team could make four or five deft free agent moves to have the best offense in the game. If you thought the White Sox were about three years away from a championship in 2002, you also probably have a safety deposit box filled with Joe Borchard and Jon Rauch rookie cards. Things can change quickly for a franchise, and in ways that are hard to anticipate.

That noted, it's pretty easy to recognize the Giants are a mess going forward. The only players worth building around are a couple of pitchers, only one of whom has really proven anything in the majors. The team's best position player prospects haven't cracked A-ball, and not one of them is a sure thing to even reach the majors in the next two years, much less produce at a high level. Organizations counting on filling each and every hole through free agency will eventually step in a steaming pile of reality, seriously overpaying for players like Carl Pavano in an offseason thin at select positions. But with the current starting lineup filled with players on the way out, and a minor-league system bereft of blue-chip building blocks, the Giants seem like candidates to get trapped in that kind of free agency vortex.

Even considering the painful season for the Giants in 2005, there are a few things going in the favor of next year's team. Bonds will surely play more games, at least, and he didn't forget how to hit while he was injured. Moises Alou and Ray Durham are very solid performers when healthy. Omar Vizquel's defense combines with a slightly below-average bat to make a shortstop worth having. Randy Winn isn't going to keep hitting a home run every three at-bats, but he's a nice centerfielder to have in the lineup. Jason Schmidt is a candidate to bounce back, and the promise shown by Noah Lowry and Matt Cain could manifest itself sooner rather than later. The bullpen looks very solid. The division is still awful. These are all fairly lukewarm endorsements, but they add up to a team decent enough to not give up on. Given the tarot cards on the table, it's more than that. It's a team worth putting a last-gasp effort into, and that wasn't going to be done with bargain pitchers like Elmer Dessens. The Giants tried something similar with Brett Tomko, and they almost got away with it. Now, with the window closed even more, it isn't the time to try again.

Morris has shown the ability to be an outstanding pitcher. There are pitchers who stop allowing hits at their normal rate for a season, have their ERAs shrink, and parlay it all into a nice contract before reverting back to their old form. There are pitchers who hide behind spacious home ballparks, giving everyone a rude awakening when things start to go wrong in a new and smaller home. These scenarios don't describe the good years from Morris. When he's on and helping his club, it's because he's keeping his walks down and his strikeouts up. It's because he's using the command of his fastball to set up his good breaking pitches. In his best years, there was never a doubt as to how he was doing it. In the first half of last year he strung together a whole bunch of vintage Morris performances. In the second half of the season, he was Tomko at Coors on two day's rest. Exactly what that second half meant is debatable, and the Giants are putting about $30M on the contention it was a harmless trend that should be ignored.

Any time a pitcher fades like that, injury is the first thing that comes to mind. A physical is the only thing holding this deal up, so if a shoulder filled with cottage cheese is what caused Morris to fade, the Giants should catch it. The ability to pop the hood and poke around takes a little of the sting out of the financial commitment. Morris had shoulder surgery a little over a year ago, which makes his first half that much more impressive. It's not fanboy optimism to think Morris was simply tired by the end of the year, and his stamina should come back next season. If there are no obvious physical problems, there's very good reason to be proud of a rotation featuring Jason Schmidt, Matt Morris, Noah Lowry, and Matt Cain for next season.

If the Giants didn't sign Morris, it isn't as if they were going to jump in the Carlos Delgado race, or suddenly be able to trade Todd Linden for Miguel Tejada. The money would have gone to a faux Morris, and the savings might have been applied to the bench. All things being equal, this is a bad contract; an overreaction in a pitching-thin market. Things are definitely not equal, though. The Giants are Uma Thurman, flopping around on Eric Stoltz's floor. Matt Morris may or may not be a sturdy syringe filled with adrenaline, but there were hardly any other options that were automatically preferable for 2006. I look forward to watching Matt Morris pitch next season, and will plug my ears any time another future season is mentioned.

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Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
And if the reports about this signing are premature, this post will vanish. Pooof.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 11, 2005 5:54 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
It's not a good contract. In fact, it's a good bet to be Alfonzo bad by the end of it. But I suppose there weren't a whole lot of options out there. Burnnett at 5 years would have been even more crippling, and Millwood is pretty consistant in giving you one good season out of every 2 or 3.

I'm sure Sabean will still sign or trade for some castoff #5 starter. Let's hope that ends up being more Hermanson than Franklyn.

by mxmob33 on Dec 11, 2005 6:32 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Lets bring back Ernie Camacho!

by paleepalou on Dec 13, 2005 8:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I think Grant's post was a brilliant summation of the situation. I am certainly a Giants fan who leans toward the optimistic side, sort of. We had to do something. And this was the thing to do.

by Blake on Dec 11, 2005 7:35 PM PST reply actions  

Well put
Give me a few probably-going-to-suck-but-you-never-know minor league contracts (Jamey Wright, I'm looking in your direction... Jim Brower! Welcome back!) and I can live with this pitching staff.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 11, 2005 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
He is the best available option and maybe teaming back up with Matheny will be a positive.  Who says he will fall apart in a couple years?  I say good on the Giants for making a necessary move to bolster the starting pitching and hopefully he will also be a positive influence on the younger pitchers.

by APGiantsFan on Dec 11, 2005 7:40 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I like it. I have always liked Morris and think that he has the ability to outperform the contract. And if he doesn't then I agree that he could be an easily tradable chip later on. The only way he would be untradable deadweight on the budget is if he pitches for 3 straight years like he did the second half of last season. I think that is unlikely.

by hammystyle on Dec 11, 2005 7:51 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
An observation- I remember watching Morris pitch three years ago for St. Louis- his curveball was absolutely outstanding- I mean jaw dropping- however, each year sice then I have seen it get a little flatter and a little less deceptive. Hopefully this is not a result of injury or fatigue, but rather a result of his increasingly problematic sweating issue.

by mccormick22 on Dec 11, 2005 8:00 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Increasingly problematic...whaaaaa?  For real?  That would be hilarious if it was true.  The chill of San Francisco would help that out.

by Skaldheim on Dec 12, 2005 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Optimist
Well, at the beginning of the off season I was hoping for better than this. I was particularly worried about the second half Morris had had.

But since then, I started to actually like Morris a bit. It's become clear that this is a crazy-good market if you're a free agent pitcher. So the cost isn't too bad considering the context.

Also, Morris' peripheral numbers were pretty good last year. He does an outstanding job of avoiding walks. His strikeout rate is subpar, but not alarmingly so. He gives up too many homeruns, but he was also a groundball pitcher last year.

I'm OK with this signing. It beats the alternatives, and Morris' performance gives some reasons for optimism -- despite the terrible second half.

by Dan from NM on Dec 11, 2005 8:44 PM PST reply actions  

I'm with you
Like Grant and most of the other comments made here, I think its a very risky, very scary contract, but we had to do it and I'm glad Morris is going to be in our rotation.

What we do the rest of the offseason is critical. As presently constructed, the offense is way too weak. No way this team wins without incredible luck and a bunch of career years, and we can't be counting on incredible luck and a bunch of career years. We need a big bat at third or first. We need another option for the rotation to compete with Hennessey and Correia for the fifth spot. We need a middle infielder who can contribute offensively when Durham or Vizquel go down. We need a good backup for Matheny. And though Sweeney is definitely a good player to have on the bench, we need much more than that to back up Bonds, Alou and Winn - essentially we'll be needing a fourth starting outfielder (personally I would take a shot at Bradley, despite the risk, because of the so-rare opportunity to obtain at an affordable price an offensive force who can play anywhere in the outfield, but thats for another post).

Signing Morris is great, and absolutely necessary, but there's a lot more work to be done with this team. Maybe there's no sense of elation because it was so drawn out, but more than that I think the signing brings with it the realization that with the Bondsian window of opportunity closing so fast this year may be our last shot, and for that we need more.

by FavoriteSpring on Dec 11, 2005 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I wasn't too keen on Morris either at first.  But then a good look at his numbers convinced me.  On the road Morris pitched an ERA of 3.87 on the year.  But even more convincing was his OPS on the road, .683, which puts him between Josh Beckett and Roy Oswalt amongst NL pitchers (total OPS in that case)

So dealing his sinker and his new Slider-Cutter (Slutter??) out of St. Louis could make him a true premium pitcher for us.  If he can throw like he did last year then his true value is probably about $7-8 a year, so we didn't get off too bad.  

All bets are off if the doctors find cottage cheese in his shoulder.  In that case, I guess Sabes is going to have to start returning Scott Boras' phone calls.  

by orangeandblackattack on Dec 11, 2005 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

Slutter
We have our first official nominee for Matt Morris' McCovey Chronicles nickname.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 11, 2005 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I think its pretty obvious that the beard caused his dropoff.  If he shaves, the contract is well worth it, if not, he's the mayor of albatross city (w/ fatty acting as sheriff).
You can't argue with that logic.  Let's just hope he shows up this spring sans face sweater.

by amoose on Dec 11, 2005 9:25 PM PST reply actions  

The Valley
Christ... I feel like I'm an unwitting participant in a research study to see how bad the ads have to get here before people stop reading this site at work.

"Um... that Porn Valley logo you keep seeing on my screen is from a, um... baseball site! That's right... a baseball site!"

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 11, 2005 10:01 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
At this salary and injury risk factor, I can only hold my nose and wish for the best.  

I wouldn't say that we are getting ripped off, as some have put it.  His stats last year was still good overall, but we are certainly at risk for overpaying slightly for average results and definitely at risk of having another Robb Nen situation of a pitcher lost for the season with nothing to show for $9M - he's been seriously injured twice during his healthiest years, his 20's, there's no reason to believe that he'll miraculously become healthy in his 30's.  

However, his risk is no worse than when we signed Schmidt to his contract.  Schmidt only had that beautiful half season with us on his record as a starting pitcher, he was pretty ordinary previously plus frequently injured.  Both will have the injury Sword of Damocles hanging over them for the rest of their careers:  so will we get domination or will we get injury marred seasons?  Hopefully, their risks will "negate" each other, like risky stocks in a portfolio, and we get one dominating season from one and we'll see from the other.  That plus Lowry and Cain should be enough to get us to the divisional title.

This is also no worse than the gamble the Giants took with Bonds' $95M contract.  How many of you thought Bonds would be hitting well at 41-42?  Even 40 was questionable, the history of baseball said that it was unlikely.  And we would have been paying $20M to Bonds for that potential slop.  Age and injury were huge question marks.  I'm more than glad most of it worked until 2005 - I assume we all agree that his injury put a wrench into the works in 2005's season.

I could have went either way with Morris, signing or passing.  If we are going to blow away a big chunk of money anyway on a starting pitcher, I preferred Morris over the choices who were in our price range (under $10M per year) as most of his "substitute goods" are journeymen mediocre pitchers whereas he actually had pitched well before.  I didn't consider any of Boras's stable of pitchers to be substitute goods because he somehow snookers teams to overpay for his clients, both in years and dollars, and I assume $10M is the where the bar is set for the limboing set.

I recently became of the persuasion that it probably is better to dip into the non-tender market and find, say, 4 cheap mediocre starters and let them battle Hennessey for the last two spots in the rotation.  But now that it looks like Morris will be signed by the Giants, they could always do that for the last spot.

For those who want to compare Morris' uninspiring last two seasons to Tomko, it's hard to judge his results for 2004-5 because of his injury. I'm not as convinced about the second half "collapse" that most nay-sayers have been pointing at and holding their noses. In July he had a 4.36 ERA and in September, he had a 4.08 ERA, those hardly connote a collapse; it was in August where he stunk and even then it was a 4.93 ERA, which, while not great, is certainly an acceptable result for a good starter, he can't be great every month.

This is similar to what happened to Tomko in 2004, only in reverse.  In that case, everyone was wowed by his dominating post-ASG stats but when I dug into them, he had two average months sandwiching a dominating one month.  Which was real and which was illusion for Tomko, the two average months or the great one month?  Same for Morris.

He was also "homeriffic" those last three months vs. the first three, 6 homers in first 3 months vs. 13 homers in last 3 months. Looking at the stats, I don't know how significant or not it is, but 7 of those 13 homers were in games against Chicago, else he was about on par with the first half of the year.

His K's also went down in the last two months but it was pretty good the first 4 months of the season. As well, his K/W ratio was extremely good (>2.0) until his final month.

Also on a positive note, he pitched really well his last two games of the season, 6.0 IP, 1 hit/3 BB, 1R/0ER, 4 K then 6.0 IP, 5 hits/1 BB, 2 R/ER, 1 HR, 3 K; except for his K total, they were two of his best games pitched in the post-ASG period.  Essentially his tailspin began soon after that long layoff between starts because of the ASG, 9 days between starts.  He had an OK but short start, then a string of 5 bad starts, killing August, before righting himself enough for so-so starts until those final two games.

So, he looked pretty much like the Morris of old until the final two months. The question is whether the decline was due to fatigue or a new or recurring injury or even just damn random luck, maybe it was just one of those stretches when he couldn't strike anyone out and everything guys were hitting were falling in for hits.  

Don't know, but it looks like we will have front row seats to see what happens.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 12, 2005 1:53 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I hope Morris stays healthy, three years on his medical record is a bit risky, but I guess it is kinda of like hearing you have just won a brand new Bently, but the catch is you have to leave it parked unlocked with the windows down in the worst section of Los Angeles for three days, and you can have what is left over.  It's still worth more than your Toyota, but it might not start.

I wouldn't have been too dissapointed with Tomko, but its nice they will spend a little money this off-season, even if it is risky.  But at least Tomko would have taken the ball even if his arm had fallen off, just let Stan Conte duct tape it to the shoulder.  

I don't mind letting Correia and Hennessey battle for the fifth spot.  I still think Correia has some talent, just needs to gain some command.  I watched him pitch in Atlanta last August, and he struck out seven of the first nine guys he faced.  If they can't manage it, then go find someone down the stretch.  

Does anyone agree that Juan Encarnacian would be a great fit for our outfield?  He has been the ugly step child of a lot of outfields the last few years with the Marlins and Reds.  The fourth outfielder is a virtual lock to recieve 70 starts on this team, and he plays right field, which means when he is in, Alou isn't there.  Him and Wynn covering that gap half of the time makes me feel a whole lot better than what we have.  I just think it makes some sense, and if we sign him for two years and he ends up being a starter in right in '07, it wouldn't hurt my feelings either, and he'll only be 31 by next spring.  

I wish my hometown newspaper could line up all the columns in a Giants box score.

by Bring Back the Thrill on Dec 12, 2005 5:39 AM PST reply actions  

Encarnacian
I have thought Juan would look good in a Giants uniform.  I recall that he has always hit well in Mays' Field, perhaps the stat heads could look it up.  I just don't know if he would take to a fourth ourfielder role, even given the # of games he would likely play.  

by APGiantsFan on Dec 12, 2005 6:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Great as step one. Morris brings their rotation to respectability, but a fifth starter other than Hennessey or Correia is necessary for the season long grind. I'm convinced that Cain is worth the gamble as the fifth starter, but their no one else in the Giants organization worth counting on to fill out the rotation.

Washburn is still available and he would balance the rotation in a nice way. Then they can sign Nomar to play third and bat in front of Barry. Next, how about Burnitz to provide left-handed pop off the Bench? Followed by ...? Is it all dreaming? Of course, but if they're serious about a run for the Series while Bonds is on the team, it will take more than Morris to do so.

I know, I know, they will bust their budget overpaying free agents trying to grasp the brass ring! I don't care!!! Time to pony up and pay what's necessary to bring a World Series win to San Francisco. The window is closing.

by Sayhey on Dec 12, 2005 6:45 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Do we know anything yet about how the deal is structured? It would be nice if it were one of those heavily backloaded deals. The Giants are going to suck in 2008 anyway, so an extra $5 or $10 million in salary will matter a lot less then than it does now.

The Uma Thurman analogy is bizarre yet perfect ....

by Evan on Dec 12, 2005 7:34 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
His 'second half slide' isn't nearly as worrisome if you drop the last day of the season. I'm willing to believe that he was looking forward t the playoffs.

by prospecthound on Dec 12, 2005 8:58 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Am I looking at the wrong game log?  This is the second reference to Morris doing poorly in his last start.  I have him going 6.0 IP, 5 hits/1 BB, 2 R/ER, 1 HR, 3 K's.  That's a very good outing, short, but good.  And in the game before that, 6.0 IP, 1 hit/3 BB, 1 R/0 ER, 4 K's.

Oh, there it is, ESPN is missing his Oct outing, 3.0 IP, 8 hits/1 BB, 5 R/ER, 3 HRs, 3 K's.  OK, that is horrible but he was OK to good in his previous four outings up to that last game.  (dang ESPN!)

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 12, 2005 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
You see what I mean then.  Meaningless game, last day before the playoffs start, he threw like it was batting practice and didn't strain himself. He then went out and pitched a pretty good playoff game.  For those making comparisons between Morris and Tomko, see what happens when you take the last day off for BOTH of them.

by prospecthound on Dec 12, 2005 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I heard Krukow talking about Morris on KNBR this morning.  Now I'm all pumped up about the Morris signing.  Of course, Kruk could make bringing back Rueben Rivera sound like a good thing, so take that for what it's worth.

He talked about how Morris is a tough competitior who'll throw inside to protect his own hitters.  Also talked about how he's better at changing speeds and throwing a bunch of different pitches anywhere in the count.  He also thought he would thrive here not having to be the #1 starter and knowing that the right field is dead.

www.waitingfortbg.com (under contstruction)

by Goofus on Dec 12, 2005 10:45 AM PST reply actions  

Morris will throw inside
In the pennant-clinching game in 2002, Morris hit three Giants.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 12, 2005 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I have stopped getting excited over sabean signings, since everything has gone to heck the past 2 years.

I think we are overpaying Morris, and this team still has alot of question marks, and more than a few holes to fill.

Ill get excited if Morris wins at least 17 games, and can keep his era under 4.

If not, its another busted signing, and another stiff we are stuck with for the next 3 years.  

by bacci40 on Dec 12, 2005 1:54 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
OK, I'll bite, what signings would you have done that would have been better?  Within the budget, of course.  And within trading reason, no Jason Ellison for Dontrelle Willis straightup deal.  I would love to see Sabean shown up, that could push me over to your side.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 12, 2005 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I'll be excited if he stays healthy. Morris has the talent to win in double digits, including a shot at twenty, but like all pitchers the question is will his arm hold up? It's a good bet, and the only free agent pitcher out there I'd rather have was Burnett.

The real problem is this starting rotation isn't complete. I'm all for giving the fifth starter job to Matt Cain, but I expect him to have the same rough spots any young pitcher would have in his first full year in the majors. The idea that we have to go through the season with 40% of the starting rotation going through those growing pains is just a recipe for disaster. Hennessey is fine for a spot starter coming out of the pen, but the Giants must have a seasoned quality starter to go with Schmidt, Morris, Lowry, and Cain - preferably a left-hander. That means signing a Washburn (best scenario) or a Estes (least acceptable alternative) or making a trade (oh, Billy, are you sure Zito is not available?) If the Giants think they will go far, as they now stand, they are mistaken. I sure hope Sabean doesn't think his job is done.

by Sayhey on Dec 12, 2005 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
If Sabean sticks to his word, he's still looking for a power lefty hitter, a second starter, a backup catcher, and a utility MI.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 12, 2005 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a strong suspicision
that we have substantially different definitions of power lefty hitter than Sabean
"Medio-core, not forsaken/ the [team] we're make'n/ will leave you with the feeling of indifference"

by kenshin1 on Dec 12, 2005 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I have a strong suspicision
hahah yeah, according to sabean, bill mueller is "a strong left handed hitter"

when i think strong, i'm thinkin adam dunn, jim thome, ect....bill mueller does not fit that description...lol

by Bruins17 on Dec 12, 2005 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I have a strong suspicision
How about Jeromy Burnitz? I can't believe he's too expensive and he'd provide left-handed power off the bench. Not a bad right field are either.

by Sayhey on Dec 12, 2005 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I have a strong suspicision
Sorry, that's supposed to be "arm" not "are." ;)

by Sayhey on Dec 12, 2005 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Washburn will be far too pricey. He'll probably sign a contract in between Loaiza's and Morris', if not more. There's no way the Giants will trade for Zito without having to give up Cain or Lowry. They just don't have any other top-level guys.

by hammystyle on Dec 12, 2005 4:24 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
So what if Washburn gets six to seven million a year, if he nails down a rotation that can compete against anybody? The whole point is there are only so many times that a team has a legit shot at a title and with Bonds talent and career dwindling, this team is looking at perhaps its last chance for decades. Now is when you break the bank and lose money for one year, perhaps two, but field a team that can dominate. That all starts in the rotation and it also ends there if they have to rely on Hennessey.

As to Zito, I don't know what the A's expect for Zito, but they had better deal him for somebody before they lose him for nobody. I'm for finding out the price. And, yes, I agree any talks that include Cain and or Lowry are a no go.

by Sayhey on Dec 12, 2005 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Here's the Morris trend...

Year - VORP - rank
-----------------------
2001 - 54.7 - 13
2002 - 42.6 - 24
2003 - 33.1 - 50
2004 - 13.4 - 182
2005 - 18.9 - 119

It's pretty clear which Matt Morris the Giants are hoping they get.

by achiappanza on Dec 12, 2005 4:35 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I have no problems expecting him to split the difference between '03/'05. That isn't a $9M pitcher, but it isn't my money.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 12, 2005 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Thanks.  What does VORP show for his "competitors", Loaiza, Tomko, even Burnett, Washburn, Millwood.  Anyone else I missed?

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 12, 2005 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Find all the VORP you want at the Baseball Prospectus site, statistics section.

by achiappanza on Dec 14, 2005 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Oh, that's free?  I just assumed they moved all their proprietary good stuff behind the curtain after they started charging for their site.  Thanks!

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 14, 2005 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Washburn's probably going to be more like ten million for four years (remember Boras is his agent) and Millwood is looking for more than Burnett.  

And if the free agent market for starting pitchers is tight you can bet many pounds of flesh are going to be extracted in trades.  

by orangeandblackattack on Dec 12, 2005 10:23 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
So you think Washburn is going to get more money than Morris?! I've my doubts. Morris got 9 million for three years, I think the Giants can get a solid starter, Washburn or someone else, for less money than that. The only starter that should, perhaps, command a similar salary would be Millwood, but who is chasing these guys? I saw Texas just traded for Padilla, so the market just got  a little weaker. We will see, but the point is the Giants need another starter with experience.

by Sayhey on Dec 13, 2005 4:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Washburn is represented by Boras. Washburn will get his money and it will be pretty close to Morris numbers. Besides, Washburn is a case in point of someone with declining statistics and major question marks (way bigger than Morris'). I don't think the Angels even made a contract offer to him. Somebody before had mentioned Trachsel from the Mets. I don't think the cost would be TOO high on him.

by hammystyle on Dec 13, 2005 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
Washburn will get at least Kenny Rogers money -- $8 M/yr -- and more years. Anything lower means Scott Boras was body-snatched and had his brain replaced with peanut butter. (Mmm, peanut butter.)

by leftymalo on Dec 13, 2005 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
I agree.  About the peanut butter, that is, YUM!

Boras being Borass, he's going for the payroll jugular and he probably has a 200-page tome on Washburn telling you every which way but Sunday how Washburn will be the second coming of Cy Young if he joined YOUR team.  Pass!

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 13, 2005 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Welcome to Morris Valley
We can always trade during the season.  The Brewers have a solid lefty from Nor Cal, Doug Davis, who's in the last year of his contract.  They'll have to trade him by the deadline or lose him to free agency.  

by orangeandblackattack on Dec 13, 2005 9:07 AM PST reply actions  

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