Giants Sign Tim Worrell
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Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Is Walker and/or Accardo trade bait now?
by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2005 3:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
I wouldn't trade Accardo unless we're getting either the starting pitcher or lefty 1B that we all want; I'm tired of trading away good prospects, I want to see how they do for us.
Wow, Worrell, funny how life works sometimes, I ditto Kenshin's plea for cheap...
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 1, 2005 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Worrell is a Type A Free Agent
by Fog City Blues on Dec 1, 2005 3:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I desperately need...
by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 3:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way...
It does not remove the need to sign two solid starters, though. I just don't think the Giants will be able to get two starters this offseason. One, yes.
by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by dangjackson on Dec 1, 2005 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
that they signed before the arb deadline is damn frustrating.
by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Two year deal? - Yikes
2 years/ $4M
2006 - $1M
2007 - $2M
2008 - $1M (Deffered)
So with all of thier young bullpen arms, they'll need a 40 yr old Worrell around in '07?
by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2005 3:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Two year deal? - Yikes
Does anyone know what his personal problems was and whether that could impact him in the next two seasons?
Lastly, this gives Felipe a boost in reputation: a reliever actually returns back to the fold, unafraid of being overworked.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 1, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by prospecthound on Dec 1, 2005 4:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
2 Years, $4 MM
2006 $1.5MM
2007 $2.0MM
$500k signing bonus.
by Fog City Blues on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by amoose on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
The lead of the wire story doesn't sound very encouraging, though:
"Tim Worrell will attempt to resurrect his floundering career with the San Francisco Giants..."
Yikes.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=MLB&storyid=17941
by Pants Man on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by bacci40 on Dec 1, 2005 4:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
by APGiantsFan on Dec 2, 2005 6:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hawkins
by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 7:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Hawkins
by Roger on Dec 2, 2005 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personal Leave
I think it is a great deal and cheap (based on existing market).
Worrell is a type A but giants can't lose the 10th pick though.
by novaoakland on Dec 1, 2005 4:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Personal Leave
They still lose their 2nd round pick.
This is f-ing horrible.
by irwin on Dec 1, 2005 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Personal Leave
"These two pitchers, formerly teammates on the same NL East team, had a very... interesting relationship. One of the pitchers went on a "leave of absense" for personal reasons early in the season -- why? Well, it turns out his teammate, Mr. Tattletale, told the pitcher's wife that he was cheating on her. OUCH. But, never fear: the now-exposed pitcher came back (although still pitching terribly) and got his revenge -- how? He ended up telling Mr. Tattletale's wife that he was cheating on her, and then Mr. Tattletale promptly missed his next start. Although Mr. T's teammate ended up getting traded to the NL West due to his abysmal pitching, you can't help wondering if his little retaliation plan also played a part in his exile. I guess we here at On The DL aren't the only ones who like exposing some dirty laundry. ;)"
Several commenters posted that the first pitcher mentioned was Worrell and second was Cory Lidle. It fits: Worrell is the only struggling Phillies pitcher dealt to a west coast team last season that I know of, both he and Lidle had their corresponding leaves at the right times, and one commenter mentioned Worrell as a renowned dog.
By the way, here's a link to the site:
http://itsasecretsohush.blogspot.com/
by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Personal Leave
Might of been me having panic attacks when he pitches....
by irwin on Dec 1, 2005 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Personal Leave
"He pitched in five more games for the Phillies, before the club accommodated his request to pitch closer to home and traded him to Arizona."
I don't think being closer to home would cure panic attacks, but it definitely might help you cozy back up to the wife scorned.
by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Sabean!!
- 38 yo pitcher-2year contract! How many more 40 yo players do we need on this team anyway?
- Dumping draft choices again. There is no reason on God's green earth why this had to be done before the arbitration deadline except Sabean is obviously dumping draft choices again. We lose a second rounder here.
- This just proves that Sabean has no #$%& plan! He's just treading water trying not to drown until Barry retires and then what? We should already be seeing the beginnings of the future and we're getting more of the past!
by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 1, 2005 5:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Fire Sabean!!
I was so happy that we had stopped denuding our farm system. Damn you Sabean!
by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Fire Sabean!!
by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to whom
Second, is giving a $500,000 signing bonus any worse than giving a $500,000 signing bonus to a second round pick like Todd Jennings?
Signing Worrell may not be an exciting move, but I think it is a solid move to shore up the bullpen. It's better than signing some marginally effective, overpaid LOOGY, right? Assuming no trades, the Giants bullpen veterans are Benitez, Hawkins, Worrell, Walker and Fassero. This means Accardo, Munter and Taschner get to battle for the final two spots, with the loser of that battle now being a very good callup in case of injury or ineffectiveness to another member of the bullpen.
by steve S on Dec 1, 2005 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: to whom
Worrell was actually quite good after he got to Arizona. His peripherals were almost identical to what they were during his good years with the Giants.
Let me try this on.
8th inning starts, Giants lead 4-3.
Tyler Walker comes in to face Loretta.
Loretta walks on four pitches.
Fassero comes in to face Giles.
Giles singles to right, Loretta to third.
Hawkins comes in to face Cameron.
Cameron strikes out.
Taschner comes in to face Klesko.
Klesko walks, Giles to second.
Worrell comes in to face Kahlil Greene.
Greene lines into a double play, Alfonzo to Daryle Ward.
Freakin' awesome.
by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like a pretty generous definition...
I can't disagree with you about the draft choices, though. Sabean knew what he was doing and decided to sign Worrell now anyway. Unlike in the past, at least we know that we have a Top 10 pick and another Top 40-ish pick that Sabean can't lose even if he wants to.
by Pants Man on Dec 1, 2005 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Seems like a pretty generous definition...
by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the shit?
by antinous on Dec 1, 2005 5:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by z4 landshark on Dec 1, 2005 6:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by leftymalo on Dec 1, 2005 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by amoose on Dec 1, 2005 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
In a nutshell, this to me enshrines everything that is wrong with the Giants philosophy - they would rather pay market value for enshrined mediocrity, then overpay for genuine top level talent (a Vlad). Given that the talent structure in baseball is pyramidal, this is wishful at best and blindly ignorant at worst.
I guess I'm bitter - this is an awful sign of any evolution of Sabean, and suggests that the things we attribute to Colletti (the Neifi'ness, the JC contract, the frigging Matheny signing) is simply Brian. That does not bode well.
by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
the Giants always pay market value for mediocrity but aside from Bonds they have refused to pay for top level talent (including prospects).
And you are right, in saying that all those horrible signings may just have been Sabes...which is a SCARY SCARY thought.
And once again, what pisses me off is I'm not saying our bullpen is strong by any means. But, the Giants have bigger needs like needing a lefthanded power bat and another starter. The 2 or so million they spent should have gone towards those positions. Accardo, Munter, Hawkins, Taschner, Tyler Walker, and healthy Benitez is a decent group. They didnt HAVE to sign a 2 million 38 year old reliever. I would much rather spend that money elsewhere.
And then to give up our 2nd rounder from Eyre and give that, a supplemental pick to our division rivals the DBacks also frustates me more.
Its so apparent to me, because Sabean could have jsut waited a COUPLE more days and we would have been fine. DAMN, im pissed.
With all that said, I like Worrell and I think that he will have a pretty good year, but its just that he wasnt necessary.
Im out!! SABEAN please rebound from this signing, and acquire Jason Marquis and pick up Kotchman (big dreams).
by z4 landshark on Dec 1, 2005 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
So....
Benitez
Hawkins
Worrell
Accardo
Munter
Taschner
Fassero
With a rotation of...
Schmidt
Morris
Cain
Lowry
Walker?
Would that explain the trade a bit better? Or maybe Fassero's gonna be the 5th starter.
by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2005 9:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Meh
Suck it, Bill James.
by The Balls of Summer on Dec 1, 2005 11:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
-D
by dw4848 on Dec 1, 2005 11:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
I doubt we're getting the same pitcher, but his road ERAs (3.15 in 2004, 2.74 in 2005) are enough to give me a little bit of hope.
by Pants Man on Dec 2, 2005 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
by Aadik on Dec 2, 2005 6:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
Worrell was incredible with runners on base in 2002 (.198/.273/.267 opponents' rates), and solid in 2003 (.247/.308/.327)... I don't know about 2001 or inherited runners in particular.
Last year he had a rough start and some sort of personal problems, he gave up a lot of unearned runs, and now he's 38. There are plenty of reasons to worry, but his numbers as a Giant aren't among them.
by Pants Man on Dec 2, 2005 8:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Worrell's time in Philadelphia was a disaster. Hitter's park, his personal life exploded, he had wanted to stay a Giant and couldn't. Last year, he gets the hell out of Philly, and shines again in Arizona. I think he has a great chance of being a very effective 7th inning guy in San Francisco.
Very glad to have him back. I'm not worried about the cash.
by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quote of the year from Sabean
(from today's Chronicle article on the Worrell signing)
Yeah, ironic. What a horrible blunder that was - assuming that Nen was coming back and that Herges could close if he didn't.
by FavoriteSpring on Dec 2, 2005 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Quote of the year from Sabean
by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Converting a RP into a SP
by ejorgs on Dec 2, 2005 2:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and...
by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyler Walker
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
by xanthan on Dec 2, 2005 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Tyler Walker
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
New Rumor
The Mets' talks with the Orioles about a Kris Benson trade have cooled, according to one American League team executive. But the Mets were still listening to clubs such as the Giants and Royals believed to be in the hunt, according to the executive.
-- New York Post
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/scorecard/12/02/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html
Not that I want Kris, but Ana might be nice to have around. He is a pitcher, might not be too bad if you give up Edgardo. The money would even out this season, and you could sign another starter on the market like Morris. That would give us a decent rotation. I don't mind Benson/Morris as 3-4 starters and Cain as a fifth for his first full season.
Schmidt
Lowry
Benson
Morris
Cain
Not too Shabby.
by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 11:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: New Rumor
On a related note, at another site I saw that the Giants are talking to the Mets about Matsui again, trying to restart the Matsui for Alfonzo trade that almost happened last season except that his hamstring went bad right then.
Speaking of rumors, the Oakland Trib mentioned that the Giants have been shopping Feliz around in trade talks, with the possibility of them bringing back Mueller back in the fold.
Lastly, I noticed that Jacque Jones was reportedly offered a 3 year, $20M deal by the Cards. Isn't Jones comparable to Winn? If so, then that's probably what Winn is looking for at the moment and makes his $5M salary for 2006 season look cheap.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Worrell
This also makes it easier to trade Hawkins or Benitez and free up salary, although I doubt Sabean does that.
As for Inherited Runners here are Worrell's stats the last few years:
YR TM GR IP INB INS INR BQB BQS BQR RA FRA
2005 ARI 32 31.7 17 8 -0.3 7 0 1.6 3.69 4.13
2005 PHI 19 17 5 2 -1.2 6 2 0.4 9.00 9.11
2004 PHI 77 78.3 28 9 2.7 6 2 0.8 4.14 3.77
2003 SFN 76 78.3 28 14 -1.2 12 1 3.2 4.02 4.33
2002 SFN 79 71.7 41 14 4.8 21 7 4.1 2.64 2.37
2001 SFN 73 78.3 43 20 -1.3 28 9 4.9 3.79 3.98
INB = Inherited Baserunners
INS = Inherited Runners who Scored
INR = Inherited runs prevented from scoring. The expected number of inherited runners that would score in the reliever's appearances based upon league average performance, minus the actual number the reliever allowed to score.
BQB = Bequeathed Baserunners
BQS = Bequeathed Runners who Scored
BQR = Bequeathed runs prevented from scoring. Measures how many more or fewer of the bequeathed baserunners subsequent relievers allowed to score than would be expected from league average performance in those situations. I.e., a positive figure means the following relievers kept more of the bequeathed runners from scoring than expected, negative means more of the runners scored than expected.
FRA = "Fair" runs against average. RA with inherited/bequeathed runners included
It looks like he was below average with inherited runners in 2001, 2003, and 2005 but well above average in 2002 and 2004. He has been relatively lucky with runners that he has left on base for other relievers. All in all he looks like a good bet for 75 IP of 4.00 FRA, which isn't bad for $2M in this market. Losing the draft pick was pointless and we have more pressing needs but I don't think this move by itself is that bad (other than the draft pick). It just depends on what else is done.
by Nick Schulte on Dec 2, 2005 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Worrell
To us that'll be no big deal, we're happy with the bullpen and willing to take the risks of a sophomore slump by one of our rookie relievers, but obviously it is a goal for Sabean to get an experienced reliever so then he'll move on to the next target.
Thus it's possible that we could end up with Carrasco instead, who is looking for 2 years, $6M for his one good year in the new millenium, if the music stops and he is the only one left.
I'll take Worrell and move on to hopefully a much better thought: who we'll get as starter.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
At $10M budget left to spend, the money spent on Worrell wouldn't really affect the Giants plans: they weren't planning on bringing in a high paid player as some of us were hoping. They are still looking for an upgrade at starter - most accounts note that the Giants are one of the more interested parties in signing Morris. They still need their lefty 1B/OF and backup catcher and utility MI and if they are creative enough with the starter in starting low in 2006, they can fit those three into the puzzle that is their payroll.
Lastly, the draft pick that was lost: I understand the consternation over a lost first round pick (I don't agree but I understand the symbology of it), but the 2nd round draft pick is nothing to bring on such sturm und drang. From my data on the drafts from 1986 to 2003, the odds were 30 to 1 that you pick up a significant (good or star player) player when picking from 51st to 60th overall (last two drafts, the 10th pick of the second round were the 51st and 58th pick overall).
So it is overwhelmingly likely that the pick is useless: 83.3% of the players picked from 51 to 60th overall either never made the majors or got in no more than about half a season of games in the majors. And another 5.0% played at least half a season's worth of games but never made it to arbitration, which means they didn't really play that well. So nearly 90% (88.3%) of the picks never amounted to much of anything.
In addition, most of the remaining, 8.3%, became a useful player, a player who made arbitration and perhaps have had a long career but never had flashy stats, like a Michael Tucker, which is valuable but nothing to get to stirred up about. At least not to the point of ripping Sabean a new one.
So, only 3.3% became a good or star player. Meaning that if you had 30 years of drafting in the 10th spot of the 2nd round, you would pick up 1 good or star player and 2-3 useful players, with the remaining 26-27 players doing basically nothing worthwhile for you. I don't think that's anything to get upset over. And the $650K they saved goes towards paying Worrell so that savings go into getting a better option at starting pitcher or otherwise.
I'm just disappointed that Sabean does not appear to be holding to the statement attributed to the team that they would not punt any draft picks this season. But as someone noted, it might not have been a direct quote from him so in that case, I'm not so crushed, it's just that he keeps most information close to his vest that if we cannot even hold him to what he actually says, then that's even less info.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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