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Around SBN: Kentucky Wildcats 66, Alabama Crimson Tide, 55: Postmortem

Giants Sign Tim Worrell

Via Pravda:

Link

Two year contract...no word yet on money.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Worrell was solid after he returned from his personal leave last year. Depending on $$$, it could be a bargain.

Is Walker and/or Accardo trade bait now?

by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2005 3:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
please be cheap, please be cheap, please be cheap, please be cheap, please be cheap
And when you're old and grey you will remember what they said: '2 girls are too many, 3's a crowd and 4 you're dead' - The Kinks

by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Once I heard news about getting a reliever, I assume that Walker has to be the trade bait, teams are getting desperate for closer types and he did well (OK, well enough) in that role last season.

I wouldn't trade Accardo unless we're getting either the starting pitcher or lefty 1B that we all want;  I'm tired of trading away good prospects, I want to see how they do for us.

Wow, Worrell, funny how life works sometimes, I ditto Kenshin's plea for cheap...

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 1, 2005 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Worrell is a Type A Free Agent
according to this site.
Did you ever go to bed with Carlos Delgado and wake up with Daryle Ward?

by Fog City Blues on Dec 1, 2005 3:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I desperately need...
someone to rationalize this move to me! Please! Seriously, how much money can a team with a budget invest in the bullpen.  
And when you're old and grey you will remember what they said: '2 girls are too many, 3's a crowd and 4 you're dead' - The Kinks

by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 3:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Look at it this way...
...with the rotation being a huge question mark, you have to figure the bullpen will pitch a LOT of innings in 2006.  Adding another good arm makes sense when you look at it this way.

It does not remove the need to sign two solid starters, though.  I just don't think the Giants will be able to get two starters this offseason.  One, yes.

by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 8:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
And apparently we needed someone else in the bullpen for Fassero to reminisce about the Korean War with.

by dangjackson on Dec 1, 2005 3:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
bravo.
that they signed before the arb deadline is damn frustrating.

by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two year deal? - Yikes
That's what KNBR is reporting. I'm going to take a stab at this:

2 years/ $4M

2006 - $1M
2007 - $2M
2008 - $1M (Deffered)

So with all of thier young bullpen arms, they'll need a 40 yr old Worrell around in '07?

by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2005 3:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Two year deal? - Yikes
That's not as cheap as I would want but that's actually not too bad for experienced relievers nowadays.  I didn't know he did so well for the D-backs after the Phils, he actually saved his season with that, he got his ERA almost under 4 with that effort.  But how does he rate an A free agent?  And I assume that means we lost our 2nd round pick...

Does anyone know what his personal problems was and whether that could impact him in the next two seasons?

Lastly, this gives Felipe a boost in reputation:  a reliever actually returns back to the fold, unafraid of being overworked.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 1, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Haven't you been watching? The way Alou runs through bullpen arms, we need Fassero, We need Worrell, we need all the kids,we need several more kids, and above all we need the 11th Armored Cavaly Regiment.

by prospecthound on Dec 1, 2005 4:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

2 Years, $4 MM
Per AP

2006 $1.5MM
2007 $2.0MM

$500k signing bonus.

Did you ever go to bed with Carlos Delgado and wake up with Daryle Ward?

by Fog City Blues on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Well that settles it, all of our off season needs have been filled with this signing.  Everyone rest easy the pennant is practically a done deal.

by amoose on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Whatever
Yeah, whatever. I am in the minority here in that I don't have much faith in Munter and I really think we needed to add another bullpen arm. Worrell wouldn't have been my first choice, but I can live with him and his salary. I'm happy we didn't go for a Mike Myers type, as Hawkins, Accardo, Benitez, and (now) Worrell have all had success against lefties. I will now pray that this indicates the end of the Seventh Inning Carousel.

The lead of the wire story doesn't sound very encouraging, though:

"Tim Worrell will attempt to resurrect his floundering career with the San Francisco Giants..."

Yikes.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=MLB&storyid=17941

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 1, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
TRADE HAWK.....KEEP ALL THE KIDS

by bacci40 on Dec 1, 2005 4:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ditto
My thoughts exactly - trade Hawkins please, please, please.

by APGiantsFan on Dec 2, 2005 6:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hawkins
Who would take him with that bulging salary for next season?  You would have to pay half of it just to dump him.

by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 7:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hawkins
I don't know. Kyle Farnsworth's getting around $6M from NY. The middle reliever market seems to have just gone a little funny... you know in the head?

by Roger on Dec 2, 2005 8:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Personal Leave
Was that personal leave ever clarified.

I think it is a great deal and cheap (based on existing market).

Worrell is a type A but giants can't lose the 10th pick though.

by novaoakland on Dec 1, 2005 4:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Personal Leave
Panic Attacks....just the thing I want a relief pitcher to have.

They still lose their 2nd round pick.

This is f-ing horrible.

The Dodgers ARE evil.

by irwin on Dec 1, 2005 5:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Personal Leave
Are you sure about the panic attacks? I heard something very different. Check out this blind item from 'On The DL', a site proclaiming itself as the Page Six of baseball:

"These two pitchers, formerly teammates on the same NL East team, had a very... interesting relationship. One of the pitchers went on a "leave of absense" for personal reasons early in the season -- why? Well, it turns out his teammate, Mr. Tattletale, told the pitcher's wife that he was cheating on her. OUCH. But, never fear: the now-exposed pitcher came back (although still pitching terribly) and got his revenge -- how? He ended up telling Mr. Tattletale's wife that he was cheating on her, and then Mr. Tattletale promptly missed his next start. Although Mr. T's teammate ended up getting traded to the NL West due to his abysmal pitching, you can't help wondering if his little retaliation plan also played a part in his exile. I guess we here at On The DL aren't the only ones who like exposing some dirty laundry. ;)"

Several commenters posted that the first pitcher mentioned was Worrell and second was Cory Lidle. It fits: Worrell is the only struggling Phillies pitcher dealt to a west coast team last season that I know of, both he and Lidle had their corresponding leaves at the right times, and one commenter mentioned Worrell as a renowned dog.

By the way, here's a link to the site:

http://itsasecretsohush.blogspot.com/

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 6:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Personal Leave
No, not 100%. I do remember reading it somewhere. Wish I had a link.

Might of been me having panic attacks when he pitches....

The Dodgers ARE evil.

by irwin on Dec 1, 2005 7:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Personal Leave
More evidence for the theory that Worrell was a naughty boy from the article on his signing on MLB.com:

"He pitched in five more games for the Phillies, before the club accommodated his request to pitch closer to home and traded him to Arizona."

I don't think being closer to home would cure panic attacks, but it definitely might help you cozy back up to the wife scorned.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 8:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fire Sabean!!
This is a disaster!
  1.  38 yo pitcher-2year contract!  How many more 40 yo players do we need on this team anyway?
  2.  Dumping draft choices again.  There is no reason on God's green earth why this had to be done before the arbitration deadline except Sabean is obviously dumping draft choices again.  We lose a second rounder here.
  3.  This just proves that Sabean has no #$%& plan!  He's just treading water trying not to drown until Barry retires and then what?  We should already be seeing the beginnings of the future and we're getting more of the past!

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 1, 2005 5:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Fire Sabean!!
And then what?  He's gone, that's what.  Barry's last year will be Sabean's too.  

I was so happy that we had stopped denuding our farm system.  Damn you Sabean!

Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 5:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Fire Sabean!!
<sigh> not the reassurance I am looking for Doc
And when you're old and grey you will remember what they said: '2 girls are too many, 3's a crowd and 4 you're dead' - The Kinks

by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to whom
First, I am glad to see the reactions on this message board a lot more positive than the other one at which I looked.  There it was mostly fans still bitter about the 2002 World Series when Worrell was the losing pitcher in Game 6.

Second, is giving a $500,000 signing bonus any worse than giving a $500,000 signing bonus to a second round pick like Todd Jennings?

Signing Worrell may not be an exciting move, but I think it is a solid move to shore up the bullpen.  It's better than signing some marginally effective, overpaid LOOGY, right?  Assuming no trades, the Giants bullpen veterans are Benitez, Hawkins, Worrell, Walker and Fassero.  This means Accardo, Munter and Taschner get to battle for the final two spots, with the loser of that battle now being a very good callup in case of injury or ineffectiveness to another member of the bullpen.

by steve S on Dec 1, 2005 5:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ahhh
much better
And when you're old and grey you will remember what they said: '2 girls are too many, 3's a crowd and 4 you're dead' - The Kinks

by kenshin1 on Dec 1, 2005 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to whom
OK, I've calmed down now.

Worrell was actually quite good after he got to Arizona.  His peripherals were almost identical to what they were during his good years with the Giants.

Let me try this on.

8th inning starts, Giants lead 4-3.
Tyler Walker comes in to face Loretta.
Loretta walks on four pitches.
Fassero comes in to face Giles.
Giles singles to right, Loretta to third.
Hawkins comes in to face Cameron.
Cameron strikes out.
Taschner comes in to face Klesko.
Klesko walks, Giles to second.
Worrell comes in to face Kahlil Greene.
Greene lines into a double play, Alfonzo to Daryle Ward.

Freakin' awesome.

Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 5:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hurray!!
Steve, you make me feel smarter for liking this signing.  Thank you.

by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 8:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like a pretty generous definition...
...of the word disaster. At worst, this signing is pointless; I can't imagine how it can be seen as crippling. $4M and a second round pick for two years of Worrell can't really compete with $5M, Jerome, and Aardsma for a year-and-a-half of Hawkins. Then there's the A.J. trade, the Alfonzo contract... I could go on. Pace yourself, Doc... Sabean may have some real disasters still up his sleeve.

I can't disagree with you about the draft choices, though. Sabean knew what he was doing and decided to sign Worrell now anyway. Unlike in the past, at least we know that we have a Top 10 pick and another Top 40-ish pick that Sabean can't lose even if he wants to.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 1, 2005 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Seems like a pretty generous definition...
Agreed (I always take Pants' side). This is pretty good from a risk/reward standpoint. I just wish he could've waited a few days and not given away the pick. You know Worell would've waited if sabes gave him his word on the deal.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 1, 2005 6:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What the shit?
Two years, four million dollars? Hell, I could have panic attacks and post a seven ERA for half that!

by antinous on Dec 1, 2005 5:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
look worrell is a nice player, but the reason this acquisition pisses me off is the fact that the Giants really need a good left handed bat and a starter and they have limited amounts of money.  This deal eats up 2 million out of the like I think 9-10 million that we had to spend this offseason.  This leaves us hardly anything left to fill our holes.  ANother move that leave me saying are you sh*!!#% me.
Sabean stop giving away our first round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark on Dec 1, 2005 6:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Nah.  Sabes backloads everything.  Worrell's probably getting $1M or so this year.  That's only $700K more than the minimum.
Just one time before I die

by Katman on Dec 1, 2005 6:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
I would expect this move gives Sabean the flexibility to trade Hawkins, which would free up lots of salary.
"¡Que bochinche!" - La Comay

by leftymalo on Dec 1, 2005 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
I'm sure teams are lining up to take the Hawk off our hands.  If we were to fleece some team the way Sabes was taken by the Cubs I would expect Dunn and Casey in return for our 8th inning "specialist"

by amoose on Dec 1, 2005 6:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
The problem with Worrell is that ERA flatters him - he is  awful with inherited runners, which leaves him best suited to the relatively easy role of a closer (yes, compared to a 7th Inning reliever with men on base) - as a MR, he's going to be awful. The fact the giants think Worrell is worth 2 years 4 mil when they have Accordo, Munter, and Tyler Walker is fvecking ridiculous - better spend that 2M as additional money on a Burnett.

In a nutshell, this to me enshrines everything that is wrong with the Giants philosophy - they would rather pay market value for enshrined mediocrity, then overpay for genuine top level talent (a Vlad). Given that the talent structure in baseball is pyramidal, this is wishful at best and blindly ignorant at worst.

I guess I'm bitter - this is an awful sign of any evolution of Sabean, and suggests that the things we attribute to Colletti (the Neifi'ness, the JC contract, the frigging Matheny signing) is simply Brian. That does not bode well.

by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
dude, Aadik you hit it right on the spot...exactly what I am thinking

the Giants always pay market value for mediocrity but aside from Bonds they have refused to pay for top level talent (including prospects).

And you are right, in saying that all those horrible signings may just have been Sabes...which is a SCARY SCARY thought.

And once again, what pisses me off is I'm not saying our bullpen is strong by any means. But, the Giants have bigger needs like needing a lefthanded power bat and another starter. The 2 or so million they spent should have gone towards those positions.  Accardo, Munter, Hawkins, Taschner, Tyler Walker, and healthy Benitez is a decent group. They didnt HAVE to sign a 2 million 38 year old reliever.  I would much rather spend that money elsewhere.

And then to give up our 2nd rounder from Eyre and give that, a supplemental pick to our division rivals the DBacks also frustates me more.  

Its so apparent to me, because Sabean could have jsut waited a COUPLE more days and we would have been fine. DAMN, im pissed.

With all that said, I like Worrell and I think that he will have a pretty good year, but its just that he wasnt necessary.

Im out!! SABEAN please rebound from this signing, and acquire Jason Marquis and pick up Kotchman (big dreams).

Sabean stop giving away our first round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark on Dec 1, 2005 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
dola- I forgot Hawkins. So apparently the 4 RH relievers we have aren't enough- this being the Giants, we'll given the veteran Worrell the "key" roles instead of Accardo or Munter. This just makes me angrier and angrier.

by Aadik on Dec 1, 2005 7:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So....
Any thoughts on having a bullpen of..

Benitez
Hawkins
Worrell
Accardo
Munter
Taschner
Fassero

With a rotation of...

Schmidt
Morris
Cain
Lowry
Walker?

Would that explain the trade a bit better?  Or maybe Fassero's gonna be the 5th starter.

Insert Signature In This Position.

by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2005 9:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Meh
Doesn't faze me. My Nevada Wolf Pack just marched into Allen Fieldhouse and took down the Kansas Jayhawks.

Suck it, Bill James.

I blame Tomko.

by The Balls of Summer on Dec 1, 2005 11:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Am I the only guy to remember how well Worrell filled the shoes of Rob Nenn?  Granted, he didn't perform all that well in Philly but maybe the switch back to the Bay is all he needs to get his groove back? I personally love him for his contribution to the Giants two years ago and I will back him up until he performs super poorly.  I was sad to see him go and elated to have him back.  Am I the only one who feels this way?

-D

by dw4848 on Dec 1, 2005 11:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
14-11, 38 SV, 37 Holds, 2.87 ERA, 1.273 WHIP, 229 G, 228.2 IP, 183 K

I doubt we're getting the same pitcher, but his road ERAs (3.15 in 2004, 2.74 in 2005) are enough to give me a little bit of hope.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 2, 2005 12:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
Look at his numbers with inherited runners in those years. I don't have access to the BP archvies, but someone who does should check. ERA is not a good measure per se for a reliever.

by Aadik on Dec 2, 2005 6:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Worrell's numbers as a Giant, 2001-2003
You're right about ERA; his WHIP and his opponents' OPS (about .635 as a Giant) are better measurements. I would be surprised if BP considers performance with inherited runners to be a repeatable skill, though.

Worrell was incredible with runners on base in 2002 (.198/.273/.267 opponents' rates), and solid in 2003 (.247/.308/.327)... I don't know about 2001 or inherited runners in particular.

Last year he had a rough start and some sort of personal problems, he gave up a lot of unearned runs, and now he's 38. There are plenty of reasons to worry, but his numbers as a Giant aren't among them.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 2, 2005 8:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No
I agree with you.  Let's not forget that in 2004, we were screaming that we should have kept Worrell.

Worrell's time in Philadelphia was a disaster.  Hitter's park, his personal life exploded, he had wanted to stay a Giant and couldn't.  Last year, he gets the hell out of Philly, and shines again in Arizona.  I think he has a great chance of being a very effective 7th inning guy in San Francisco.

Very glad to have him back.  I'm not worried about the cash.

by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Quote of the year from Sabean
"It's ironic we weren't smart enough to re-sign him last go-around"

(from today's Chronicle article on the Worrell signing)

Yeah, ironic. What a horrible blunder that was - assuming that Nen was coming back and that Herges could close if he didn't.

by FavoriteSpring on Dec 2, 2005 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Quote of the year from Sabean
I love it when Sabean calls himself stupid.

by Skaldheim on Dec 2, 2005 10:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Converting a RP into a SP
Wasn't the Hawk formerly a starter?

by ejorgs on Dec 2, 2005 2:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and...
There is a reason he is now a reliever.

by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyler Walker
Oh god, wasn't Tyler Walker a starter to begin with too?

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

by xanthan on Dec 2, 2005 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tyler Walker
The vast majority of relievers are starters who either couldn't cut it ever (Gagme) or anymore (Eckersley) or was thrust in that role because of team need (Righetti).

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

New Rumor
This one is from the NY Post, so take from it what you will, but what we would give up...ALFONZO!!  Please, please, please Mets.

 The Mets' talks with the Orioles about a Kris Benson trade have cooled, according to one American League team executive. But the Mets were still listening to clubs such as the Giants and Royals believed to be in the hunt, according to the executive.
-- New York Post

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/scorecard/12/02/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

Not that I want Kris, but Ana might be nice to have around.  He is a pitcher, might not be too bad if you give up Edgardo.  The money would even out this season, and you could sign another starter on the market like Morris.  That would give us a decent rotation.  I don't mind Benson/Morris as 3-4 starters and Cain as a fifth for his first full season.

Schmidt
Lowry
Benson
Morris
Cain

Not too Shabby.

by rod beck on Dec 2, 2005 11:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: New Rumor
This link also notes the Mets are interested in Vasquez of the D-backs, especially since Minaya was close to him when they both were with the Expos;  I don't see how the Giants could beat that, though perhaps D-backs could stick it up by insisting on Milledge.  I've read at other sites that the Mets aren't too happy with Benson (don't recall the reasons) and that's why they're looking to trade him but on the surface his stats look good, if his salary didn't.  

On a related note, at another site I saw that the Giants are talking to the Mets about Matsui again, trying to restart the Matsui for Alfonzo trade that almost happened last season except that his hamstring went bad right then.  

Speaking of rumors, the Oakland Trib mentioned that the Giants have been shopping Feliz around in trade talks, with the possibility of them bringing back Mueller back in the fold.  

Lastly, I noticed that Jacque Jones was reportedly offered a 3 year, $20M deal by the Cards.  Isn't Jones comparable to Winn?  If so, then that's probably what Winn is looking for at the moment and makes his $5M salary for 2006 season look cheap.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Worrell
I agree that the this is not a pressing need, however, $4M over two years isn't that much money and he has been very consistent the last few years except for the blowup in Philadelphia last year. Losing the draft pick seems completely unecessary.  I don't know why Sabean continues to do that.

This also makes it easier to trade Hawkins or Benitez and free up salary, although I doubt Sabean does that.

As for Inherited Runners here are Worrell's stats the last few years:

YR        TM    GR    IP    INB    INS    INR    BQB    BQS    BQR    RA    FRA
2005    ARI    32    31.7    17    8      -0.3     7         0        1.6    3.69    4.13
2005    PHI    19    17        5    2       -1.2     6         2        0.4    9.00    9.11
2004    PHI    77    78.3    28    9       2.7      6         2        0.8    4.14    3.77
2003    SFN    76    78.3    28    14    -1.2    12         1        3.2    4.02    4.33
2002    SFN    79    71.7    41    14     4.8    21         7        4.1    2.64    2.37
2001    SFN    73    78.3    43    20    -1.3    28         9        4.9    3.79    3.98

INB = Inherited Baserunners
INS = Inherited Runners who Scored
INR = Inherited runs prevented from scoring. The expected number of inherited runners that would score in the reliever's appearances based upon league average performance, minus the actual number the reliever allowed to score.

BQB = Bequeathed Baserunners
BQS = Bequeathed Runners who Scored
BQR = Bequeathed runs prevented from scoring. Measures how many more or fewer of the bequeathed baserunners subsequent relievers allowed to score than would be expected from league average performance in those situations. I.e., a positive figure means the following relievers kept more of the bequeathed runners from scoring than expected, negative means more of the runners scored than expected.

FRA = "Fair" runs against average. RA with inherited/bequeathed runners included

It looks like he was below average with inherited runners in 2001, 2003, and 2005 but well above average in 2002 and 2004.  He has been relatively lucky with runners that he has left on base for other relievers.  All in all he looks like a good bet for 75 IP of 4.00 FRA, which isn't bad for $2M in this market.  Losing the draft pick was pointless and we have more pressing needs but I don't think this move by itself is that bad (other than the draft pick).  It just depends on what else is done.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 2, 2005 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Worrell
Despite the platitudes that Worrell said upon rejoining the team, if another team suddenly decided that they must have Worrell and offers him more money or years while the Giants are waiting for Dec. 7th to roll by, you bet it'll be Hasta La Vista, Baby, he has a family to feed.  Plus he doesn't make Kobe money where he can buy his wife a $6M diamond ring.

To us that'll be no big deal, we're happy with the bullpen and willing to take the risks of a sophomore slump by one of our rookie relievers, but obviously it is a goal for Sabean to get an experienced reliever so then he'll move on to the next target.  

Thus it's possible that we could end up with Carrasco instead, who is looking for 2 years, $6M for his one good year in the new millenium, if the music stops and he is the only one left.  

I'll take Worrell and move on to hopefully a much better thought:  who we'll get as starter.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants Sign Tim Worrell
Let's face it, signing Worrell is not a make or break type of move, but it's good for strengthening our bullpen as Steve astutely noted.  And as DW noted, it brings back someone most of us wanted back the last time he was a free agent, but was glad he didn't at that money.  

At $10M budget left to spend, the money spent on Worrell wouldn't really affect the Giants plans:  they weren't planning on bringing in a high paid player as some of us were hoping.  They are still looking for an upgrade at starter - most accounts note that the Giants are one of the more interested parties in signing Morris.  They still need their lefty 1B/OF and backup catcher and utility MI and if they are creative enough with the starter in starting low in 2006, they can fit those three into the puzzle that is their payroll.

Lastly, the draft pick that was lost:  I understand the consternation over a lost first round pick (I don't agree but I understand the symbology of it), but the 2nd round draft pick is nothing to bring on such sturm und drang.  From my data on the drafts from 1986 to 2003, the odds were 30 to 1 that you pick up a significant (good or star player) player when picking from 51st to 60th overall (last two drafts, the 10th pick of the second round were the 51st and 58th pick overall).  

So it is overwhelmingly likely that the pick is useless:  83.3% of the players picked from 51 to 60th overall either never made the majors or got in no more than about half a season of games in the majors.  And another 5.0% played at least half a season's worth of games but never made it to arbitration, which means they didn't really play that well.  So nearly 90% (88.3%) of the picks never amounted to much of anything.

In addition, most of the remaining, 8.3%, became a useful player, a player who made arbitration and perhaps have had a long career but never had flashy stats, like a Michael Tucker, which is valuable but nothing to get to stirred up about.  At least not to the point of ripping Sabean a new one.

So, only 3.3% became a good or star player.  Meaning that if you had 30 years of drafting in the 10th spot of the 2nd round, you would pick up 1 good or star player and 2-3 useful players, with the remaining 26-27 players doing basically nothing worthwhile for you.  I don't think that's anything to get upset over.  And the $650K they saved goes towards paying Worrell so that savings go into getting a better option at starting pitcher or otherwise.

I'm just disappointed that Sabean does not appear to be holding to the statement attributed to the team that they would not punt any draft picks this season.  But as someone noted, it might not have been a direct quote from him so in that case, I'm not so crushed, it's just that he keeps most information close to his vest that if we cannot even hold him to what he actually says, then that's even less info.

by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Dec 2, 2005 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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