Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
The trade of Josh Beckett and Edgardo East to the Red Sox signals the start of yet another Marlin fire sale. If you could pass the tissue, I seem to have nothing in my eye. Without two world championships, it would be easy to feel sorry for Marlin fan. Add in the rings, and the fact they stepped over Giant cadavers to get them, and the sympathy factor drops exponentially.
So it isn't the least bit ghoulish to me to start picking through the estate sale. And I want Carlos Delgado. I want him I want him I want him I want him. I will hold my breath until I turn blue, I will kick my feet on the ground, and I will point to the bad area of the doll when the authorities start asking questions. But the authorities won't have to get involved if I get what I want. And I want Carlos Delgado.
Similar problems exist between Delgado and Jim Thome. Older first-basemen not blessed with blazing speed and athleticism tend to age poorly. Thome is already showing signs of breaking down. Delgado is not, and that's a huge reason why the Marlins aren't going to have to eat salary to trade him, while the Phillies only wish they were so lucky. Delgado is coming off a fantastic year.
The Marlins aren't going to necessarily get a stupendous package of talent from the acquiring team, either. Delgado's contract over the next three years is substantial, and that cuts into his value on the market. But before we have visions of legally changing Jason Ellison's name to Semi Pierre, slapping a bow on him, and sending him over in a straight-up deal, it should be pointed out there is competition for Delgado's services. The Orioles, Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers are all linked to him in different reports, and they can all put together some interesting deals if it becomes competitive.
Another factor that makes the idea of acquiring Delgado seem improbable: the Giants aren't even going to explore this option. There's no link to go with that assertion. Just a hunch. The Giants have repeatedly demonstrated an organizational philosophy that is averse to paying for stars. This is a quantity vs. quality argument known as the Geddina Lee philosophy, which applies...:
1.Source: Sigmund Freud, The Complete Works (Director's Cut)
However, the Giants need some serious help on offense, and they can not afford to monkey around with the idea of Mark Sweeneys and Daryle Wards to take over first base. Delgado's contract represents a smaller risk than Thome's, and only a great hitter like Delgado can help this team in any drastic way. Not an okay hitter, but a great hitter is what will be needed for the 30+ games that Bonds will sit out if we're lucky, and a great hitter is what would properly complement Bonds when he's in.
The Giants don't have the talent to trade for cheap and great, so they'll have to settle for pricey and great. That's the consequence of a decades-long farm system slump, but at least there's an out. It's Carlos Delgado, he's the reason I've changed my mind about how to fix this team for the 53rd time, and I'll pout when the Giants don't get him.
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Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
In two: Please yes.
by FavoriteSpring on Nov 22, 2005 12:48 PM PST reply actions
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 23, 2005 5:53 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
And yes, I'll take two Delgados, hold the lettuce.
P.S. I do feel sorry for the fans in Florida. The Grim Reaper owns them. By command of his Dark Lord, Seligula, he is tearing down that franchise just as surely as he tore down the Expos. Trash the stadium? Check. (Never mind that MLB countenanced the stupid lease, at the very least.) Trash the fanbase? Check. Betray the fanbase as much as possible (two World Series followed by two complete demolitions)? Check. Threaten to move, extort cash from the local governments, and generally act like a whiny baby? Check.
Goodbye, Marlins. I'll never forgive you for wiping us out in '97 and '03, but your fans do not deserve this.
OK, I'll bite...
Re: OK, I'll bite...
"what about the voice of geddy lee
how did it get so high?
i wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?
(i know him and he does!)
and you're my fact-checkin' cuz
(Aww...)"
by amoose on Nov 22, 2005 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
ugghh...
(thanks btw)
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
I wonder what it would take to get Delgado? Do the Giants even have enough talent in the minors to get him? Excluding Matt Cain, I don't think anyone else in the minors is untouchable, so why not at least try? But you are right, they won't try because they are saddled with Alfonzo and they don't want to push the payroll over $ 90 million. If they did it, it would shut a lot of the "lunatic fringe" up and could lead them back into the playoffs.
Minors-Schminors
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
The only way this trade works is if they accept Alfonzo from us, which is doubtful, I have to assume that the other teams can put together a nice package of players. And obviously we're not trading Cain, so the ones we have to offer probably start with Hennessey, Correia, Niekro, Linden, Valdez, Ortmeier, Lewis and EME, and perhaps include Simon, Wilson, Schierholtz, and Ishikawa, basically we're duplicating the Vida Blue trade, a hunka bunch of unproven prospects in exchange for the one expensive superstar player.
The Giants problem is not paying for stars but in having two stars on the team at once, as they did with Bonds and Williams. The logic for them is that then you don't have enough money to pay for the rest of the team to be better than average. They point to 1995 and 1996 and say, "see, don't work."
But they are missing the point, it's not that two stars don't work, it's that there is no baseball team except for the Yankees maybe that can win when any of the stars are injured and out. That's life and there's no insurance for that. The Giants ownership and management have just been copping out and saying they want to avoid that risk.
Well, here's the reality - if they want to avoid the risk, they are in the wrong business, the risk of injury exists at any point in time, you never know when the fastball turns in breaks someone's face bones, you never know when your two CFs crash head-first into each other, you never know when a player will slide in hard and take out your expensive MI. You take the risk and keep your fingers crossed.
Thus far, the Angels have looked pretty good with Vlad. The reality is that he could have been an Albert Belle or Mo Vaughn redux and killed the payroll for the next 5-7 years (don't remember his contract length). The same could have happened to the Giants with Bonds' contract, if his leg went out in 2002 like it did in 2005, the Giants probably would have stunk pretty bad from 2002-2005.
So, yes, they should be careful with whom they sign, making sure he seems healthy enough. But we've seen what an injured Durham has done to the offense and a presumably injured and/or aging Alfonzo has done to the offense and then there's Nen, what his absence did to the bullpen while he was out. The risk is always there with any high-priced free agent we get, but they cannot just go with all youngsters either and be reasonably confident that the team would be competitive, you have to try to balance all the risks. That's why they make the big bucks.
But despite the best laid plans of mice and GMs, there is always the fickle finger of fate, out there to muss up your plans and send you, post-haste, into the second division. Fearing that this will happen is no way to manage the roster of the team, if a good player is available, you need to make the leap.
Now, is Delgado that guy to make the leap for? Heck yeah! His road stats are great, as well as his RHP stats. He doesn't play all the games, so he could give up some ABs against LHP to Niekro in a semi-platoon or we could free up Niekro's spot for another backup player if we find that a better option.
The only caveat I would have is that he is probably a one-year rental with sharply depreciating value. He has said he is happy in Florida and don't want to leave. I assume he wants to stay near Puerto Rico, which I assume is his home. Like Vazquez, he can demand a trade from the Giants in one year and, since everyone knows we have to get rid of him, will get lowballed by everyone. And if we keep him, he could make the clubhouse hell in 2007, don't know what his rep is.
But sign me up, Barry's Last Year or Bust!
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 1:51 PM PST reply actions
Simple Game
Hindsight equals...
Hindsight
Re: Simple Game
That said, I doubt the Giants would have pursued Vlad pre-2003 either under the same rule they have been following of no two high-priced superstars.
Though it would have been interesting because up to that point Vlad had never been injured - I think his herniated disc in his back scared them off too - and they clearly had the money, whereas in pre-2004, they needed to dip into the pocket to get the extra money to get him. So instead of getting Alfonzo and Cruz Jr., they use the money on Vlad but backload it to better match their cash flows. But ultimately, I think they pass and go another route.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Simple Game
Re: Simple Game
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
ah but if i could turn back time
The power of prognostication
Calvin Murray was the future, dammit!
Re: Calvin Murray was the future, dammit!
Yeah, but it's just a matter of time
by Fog City Blues on Nov 22, 2005 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Yeah, but it's just a matter of time
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
Time to make you gentlemen...
I have no idea who either Mark Leonard or Steve Decker is.
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 22, 2005 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
While we're discussing...
The Brian Dallimore era has ended... he just signed a minor league deal with the Brewers.
Re: While we're discussing...
Is that really the best he could do? There must be some other team with openings for 2B/3B utility, I like the guy and his tenacity to keep going, but there must be a better situation somewhere else. KC, for example, as no one listed as depth according to the Yahoo site, that should be a better situation for him to make the majors than Milwaukee unless there are plans to trade off Branyan and Hall.
Good luck Brian! We'll always have the grand slam at SBC!
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 22, 2005 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 23, 2005 5:43 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Time to make you gentlemen...
My first autographs
Brutal?
But, yeah, I'd ship a dozen Alfonzos to the Angels for Vlad if someone builds a plane that could carry that weight.
Re: Brutal?
In retrospect...
Robinson ripped the Benitez signing as well. I hope he has something nice to say about our signings this year.
I sure hope I'm wrong
Yes, please...
Christ... you mentioned Mark Sweeney... a 36-year-old who just reached his career high in at-bats: 221. And he is the best possible choice out of the names I have heard. These John Mabry rumors are making my ears bleed... how do we make them stop?
Re: How do we make them stop?
So, I know a guy with a DeLorean; anybody know where we can get a Flux Capacitor?
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 23, 2005 5:49 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Yes, please...
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
by amoose on Nov 22, 2005 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
Further, darryl ward is a fat bastard, we think fonzie is a fat ass- this guy looks like he could have eaten tike redman, leading to him being left off fo the Pirates 40 man roster.
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
Also, I would consider Moises Alou to be a legit premier hitter, as well. Hopefully we will get to see how well our offense functions with Bonds and Alou in the lineup a whole year.
by Martin BiasedGiantsFanatic on Nov 24, 2005 1:59 AM PST up reply actions
I hope Sabean is kidding
by Bring Back the Thrill on Nov 23, 2005 3:11 AM PST reply actions
maybe its just a quippy facade
by Bring Back the Thrill on Nov 23, 2005 3:15 AM PST reply actions
Becket a Red Sox
Re: Becket a Red Sox
I like Beckett a lot
I really feel like we need one more good pitcher to have a shot next year.
by Nick Schulte on Nov 23, 2005 8:03 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
-D
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
what's freaking sad is that the giants weren't even mentioned as one of the teams in the running for him. for all of sabeans moaning and whining about how we need to find a legit left handed bat, and then one stud gets magically inserted into the mediocre group of players out there that fit that bill.....and then the giants don't even make an attempt to go after him.
you'd hope that we'd learned our lesson from the vlad fiasco, but it's starting to become painfully obvious that the giants are more than content with maybe making the playoffs and that's it...they don't really care about making a serious run.
i swear i remember last year magowan saying that he would add money to our payroll in an attempt to win a World Series. Put your money where your mouth is Magowan.
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
I think your $7M is going in the wrong direction
by Nick Schulte on Nov 23, 2005 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Oh, say, can you see this guy in our lineup?
For Rowand
by Nick Schulte on Nov 23, 2005 12:56 PM PST up reply actions

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